Re: Replacement dentures

From: Sdores (sdores_at_bellsouth.net)
Date: 12/18/04 

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 08:23:16 -0500

When I got my dentures I paid of course up front (insurance amount
negotiated with him) and then I had free time with him to make adjustments
necessary until I was comfortable and the teeth stayed in place. The only
thing I wish I could find was a dentist that didn't have to take days to
have dentures done at a lab and had the lab on the premises. Haven't
figured this one out yet on how to know. But adjustments, my dentist can do
though he is lousy about breaking clips on the bridge. UM MOM Susan
"Roy Brown" <roybrown@sympatico.caNADA> wrote in message
news:zRQwd.20565$pb.1368367@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Margaret wrote:
> | I don't
> | understand what is going on, and am not sure how to handle this. I want
> | to trust my dentist and am tempted just to take the teeth "as is" and
> | try to accept that they are the best they can be (because that would be
> | easier than being assertive)
>
> If you are not happy now, if nothing changes, you won't be happy later.
> You
> don't have to be openly assertive to negotiate a solution to the problem.
> .
>
> Margaret wrote:
> | As to the additional fee, the dentist said $272.00 of the $550 was an
> | additional fee charged by the lab (no one told me before today that
> | cost extra money either), $68 was for greyhound charges (the lab is 2
> | hours away and at first we were trying to hurry the process up so were
> | shipping by bus) and the rest he says is for additional visits he did
> | not include in his initial assessment.
>
> Labs do charge for resetting teeth, which is reasonable and the additional
> shipping is also reasonable. Extra billing for extra procedures is also
> reasonable. Yes they should have told you before the fact. That is your
> issue,
> not the fees.
>
> Margaret wrote:
> | It does not appear the teeth are in the same position as when in the
> | wax. At the lab, after they adjusted things, the teeth were behind my
> | lip and supported both the top and bottom teeth so they "filled out"
> | some on the wrinkles. The dental tech also moved the teeth "out" so
> | they filled out my cheeks more. I know the teeth moved because when I
> | tried on the "final" product at the lab, my mouth felt full and I was
> | feeling like drooling
>
> Not that it helps, but I almost always slightly "tweak" the position of
> the
> teeth or the wax after moving teeth at try in. Typically we move the front
> (or
> social) six teeth during try in to optimize appearance. Afterwards we move
> the
> back teeth in line for functional purposes since they work in harmony with
> the
> front. Major changes necessitate another try in. Hurrying up the process
> may
> have played a role in deciding not to do this. An overzealous trimmer or
> polisher may have removed some of the support the owner and technician had
> worked so hard to create.
>
> Margaret wrote:
> | When I went to the lab, the tech and owner reworked the teeth three
> | times. The widened the arch, and moved the teeth closed to my lips.
> | They also decided to move the back teeth closer to my cheeks to give me
> | more cheeks support/fill out my face. They looked so good when I left
> | that I cried because I looked much better and even younger. They also
> | retested the vertical and increased that slightly.
>
> Don't you think that was worth a couple of hundred? I know they didn't
> tell you
> and that is the problem.
>
> Margaret wrote:
> | the only problem except for minor corrections is that they
> | still do not give my lips any support
>
> This seems to me to be your major problem. If they could fix this would
> you be
> happy with the extra fees, or split the extra fees? (From the Devil's
> Advocate
> ... "Are we negotiating?" ... "Always").
>
> Here is a suggestion, ask your dentist if you can get a couple of stick of
> soft
> wax (called tray, periphery or ortho wax). It will stick to your denture,
> softens under warm tap water and can be easily moulded. You can add some
> onto
> the pink part of your denture in the areas you don't think give you enough
> lip
> support and reshape it until you find something you are happy with. A
> millimetre
> or two in the right spots can make the world of difference, and it won't
> damage
> the denture. Then bring the denture back to the dentist and ask if your
> modifications could be safely incorporated into the denture base. That way
> you
> are not taking up too much of his time while you are getting the "right"
> look.
> The lab can then use the wax as a guide to make the changes.
>
> Margaret wrote:
> | If what I want is unreasonable then I will accept that. Maybe
> | people's lips just sink in more and more. But, if this is not true, and
> | maybe the dentist is just not that experienced with dentures, then I
> | would appreciate knowing that too.
>
> Without seeing you, we cannot say what is possible or not, or what is
> reasonable. Can you get some pictures of you with your new and old
> dentures in
> place? Front and side views, just like mug shots. A shot or two of the new
> dentures out of your mouth from various angles with a ruler showing would
> also
> help. Alternatively get a 2nd opinion in person to put your mind at ease.
> If you
> were to say where you were from, maybe someone here could have a look or
> be able
> to suggest someone.
>
> You have not mentioned your age, but lips don't sink in unless what is
> supporting them changes. What does happen is that muscle tone and lip
> volume
> decrease with age. That is what you collagen injections are addressing.
> Did you
> mention the collagen to the dentist in the beginning? Gravity, time, and
> aging
> are not kind. We can turn back the clock a bit, but we cannot perform
> miracles
> without compromise.
>
> --
> Roy
> rem NADA to reply
>
>
>
> "Margaret" <pturandot2004@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1103240062.654110.67160@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> | Thanks for the feedback.
> |
> | The fee's confuse me.
> | > Did you pay $2500 + 500 = $3000
> | > or $3000 + 500 = $3500?
> |
> | As to the fees: I paid $242- half up front and half today. On the final
> | bill was an additional charge for $550.00, so the total is $2970.00. I
> | was rounding figures before.
> |
> | Based solely on your story, your dentist is being unreasonable. But
> | there are
> | > two sides to every story...
> |
> | Yes there are two sides to every story, and honestly the whole
> | situation is confusing to me so I understand your questioning of the
> | situation. My confusion is why I wanted advice. I am not an
> | unreasonable person- very easy to get along with and never had a
> | problem with dentists or the two previous sets of dentures before ( in
> | a different town now so can't go back to the old dentist)so I don't
> | understand what is going on, and am not sure how to handle this. I want
> | to trust my dentist and am tempted just to take the teeth "as is" and
> | try to accept that they are the best they can be (because that would be
> | easier than being assertive) but it is hard to spend $3000 on something
> | that is no better than my old set.
> |
> | A fee for an unplanned lab visit is reasonable, but not $500.
> | > An extra fee for extra appointments is unreasonable if you mentioned
> | your wishes
> | > and they were acknowledged in the beginning.
> |
> | As to the additional fee, the dentist said $272.00 of the $550 was an
> | additional fee charged by the lab (no one told me before today that
> | cost extra money either), $68 was for greyhound charges (the lab is 2
> | hours away and at first we were trying to hurry the process up so were
> | shipping by bus) and the rest he says is for additional visits he did
> | not include in his initial assessment. He never said the process only
> | included a certain number of visits. The reasons we had additional
> | visits was one time I had told him I wanted them not to be completely
> | cosmetic looking, so they set them up unevenly in wax, and I did not
> | like that ( I meant I wanted some smaller, some turned a little- not
> | longer and shorter). Another time the wax got too thin from him working
> | on it ( and it was 5 pm) so he asked me to return the next week.
> |
> | It does not appear the teeth are in the same position as when in the
> | wax. At the lab, after they adjusted things, the teeth were behind my
> | lip and supported both the top and bottom teeth so they "filled out"
> | some on the wrinkles. The dental tech also moved the teeth "out" so
> | they filled out my cheeks more. I know the teeth moved because when I
> | tried on the "final" product at the lab, my mouth felt full and I was
> | feeling like drooling, and we discussed that it would take me time to
> | get used to the feeling and would need to practice speaking (which I
> | fully expected and thought to be part of a normal readjustment).
> |
> | The whole reason I went to the lab (and for getting the new dentures in
> | the first place), was that my teeth appeared to be receding or getting
> | farther back from my lips- like my face was sinking in. In fact, I have
> | been having my lips injected with collagen in the last year- not for
> | bigger lips, but just to maintain some kind of lip border. WIthout the
> | collagen I would have no lips at all right now with the new or old
> | dentures, and I used to have full lips. At the wax tryin at the
> | dentist, the teeth were still too far back, and I was still
> | overclosing, and my dentists said he could not move the teeth farther
> | "out" or towards my teeth without my looking like I had a nightguard in
> | my mouth. He then sent me to the lab because he said it would be easier
> | for me to communicate with them directly and easier for them if they
> | could see me up close.
> |
> | When I went to the lab, the tech and owner reworked the teeth three
> | times. The widened the arch, and moved the teeth closed to my lips.
> | They also decided to move the back teeth closer to my cheeks to give me
> | more cheeks support/fill out my face. They looked so good when I left
> | that I cried because I looked much better and even younger. They also
> | retested the vertical and increased that slightly.
> |
> | So when I got the new ones today I was shocked that they did not appear
> | to be set like the "changed" ones or "final" wax tryins they had done
> | at the lab. THey appeared to be more like the was tryins before I went
> | to the lab. The suction or fit is fine inside (like I said I have big
> | ridges) so the only problem except for minor corrections is that they
> | still do not give my lips any support. The fit in terms of staying in
> | my mouth is much better- the wax ones were loose and we had to glue
> | them in.
> |
> | I guess I want to know if I am being unreasonable. I know you all see
> | patients that drive you crazy and I do not want to be one of them.
> | However, I also do not want to be so passive that I give up and end up
> | spending $3000 on something I will never wear. It is hard to stand up
> | for myself, but this is a lot of money, and a lot of time and hope
> | invested. If what I want is unreasonable then I will accept that. Maybe
> | people's lips just sink in more and more. But, if this is not true, and
> | maybe the dentist is just not that experienced with dentures, then I
> | would appreciate knowing that too. I don't want to sue him or anything,
> | I just want to look halfway decent for the money I've spent.
> |
> | Sorry to go on for so long but I am trying to better explain my
> | situation. Thanks again .
> |
> |
> |
> | Roy Brown wrote:
> | > The fee's confuse me.
> | > Did you pay $2500 + 500 = $3000
> | > or $3000 + 500 = $3500?
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | > Acrylic can be added, should be done so at no charge considering you
> | had been to
> | > the lab previously. You made no mention of whether or not the teeth
> | were in the
> | > same position. Were they or was all the difference in the denture
> | base alone?
> | > Considering the lab was directly involved they should be taking some
> | of the
> | > responsibility. If you were in my office at this point, I would
> | consider using a
> | > functional impression material to refit the denture and bulk out the
> | denture at
> | > the same time. Then I would rebase the denture.
> | >
> | > The fit is usually better on the finished product, rather than the
> | try in,
> | > depending on the technique. Minor discrepancies can occur during
> | curing of the
> | > denture and minor changes happen during the first 2 weeks or so due
> | to water
> | > sorption.
> | >
> | > Write down your concerns, divorce yourself from your emotions and
> | talk to your
> | > dentist to see if something can be resolved.
> | >
> | > Short answer is if you can't resolve this with your dentist, or they
> | can't
> | > resolve it the lab then either you need to find a new dentist or they
> | need to
> | > find a new lab.
> | >
> | > Based solely on your story, your dentist is being unreasonable. But
> | there are
> | > two sides to every story...
> | >
> | > Keep us posted on the sequence of events.
> | > --
> | > Roy
> | > rem NADA to reply
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | > "Margaret" <pturandot2004@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> | > news:1103229434.564113.166330@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> | > | Hi everyone,
> | > |
> | > | I have been lurking but this is my first post. I just not
> | replacement
> | > | dentures and I am unhappy. I need to know if my expectations are
> | > | unreasonable or if I need to ask my dentist to adjust them. I would
> | > | really appreciate any help because I just spent $3000 for a set of
> | > | dentures that are no improvement over the last pair (except they
> | are
> | > | whiter).
> | > |
> | > | I have had dentures for 6 years and this is my second replacement.
> | I
> | > | had developed lines at the corners of my mouth and vertical lines
> | all
> | > | around my mouth, plus I was overclosing and could not chew on my
> | back
> | > | teeth. I went to a general dentist, and at the tryin I told him I
> | > | wanted more lip support so he sent me to the dental techinician who
> | > | worked on the dentures, moved the teeth forward, widened the arch,
> | and
> | > | increased the vertical height, so I was very happy. Today i got the
> | > | final set and they do not look or fit like the day in the dental
> | lab.
> | > | Do they shrink a lot during the final processing? I told the
> | dentist I
> | > | wanted more lip support and he said it was not possible.
> | > |
> | > | So I guess I am wondering if this is true and I am being
> | unrealistic?
> | > | Is my mouth just going to sink farther in as I age (until I can
> | afford
> | > | implants)? Or, do I need to ask them to add some acrylic on the
> | outside
> | > | of the based to try to get more lip support? This is all very
> | > | disheartening and I don't want to bother the dentist/be a pain so I
> | > | don't know quite what to do.
> | > |
> | > | Also, today he charged my an additional $500 for the lab visit and
> | > | because I had 2 more visits than usual. He had not warned me about
> | this
> | > | charge until I came to the final visit. I didn't think this was
> | fair
> | > | but don't really know what is right either.
> | > |
> | > | Again, I really appreciate any advice/suggestions you could give
> | me. I
> | > | could just cry at this point.
> | > |
> | > | Thanks
> | > |
> |
>
>

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