Re: The Dr. K Book


"Clinton" <clintonz@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1131500449.270322.245960@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> Tony Bad wrote:
> > "Clinton" <clintonz@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> > news:1131453884.662510.308680@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >
> > > section on" x-raying the invisible".
> >
> > Any experienced clinician understands the limits of radiographs, this is
not
> > news to anyone.
> >
>
> The reality is that many OS's and dentists are refusing to look for
> infection that
> doesn't clearly show up on x-ray. If you read the links I gave to the
> jaw infection
> groups you will see that this experience is repeated over and over
> again with
> many different patients. I'm sure some smart dentists do understand the
> limits
> of x-rays, but just to give you an example, I had an OS at a major
> university
> tell me that any infection which ate into the sinus would show on a
> panorex.
> He then stated that osteomyletis could be "diagnosed" by an infectous
> disease
> doctor. Wrroooongggg!!
>

The destruction of bone is usually visible on a radiograph...there can be
cases where bony destruction will not be seen. I don't know what that OS
told you...you are telling me what you heard...but I there have been many
examples in our exchanges where you have distorted what I wrote. I find it
hard to believe that the OS said "any infection", but if he did, I disagree.

As for being "Wrrroooonnnngggggg"...looks like you get to wear the dunce cap
again...osteomyelitis is an infection of the bone...like any other
infection, there are many tests (the kind that...hmmm...maybe an infectious
disease doctor might employ) that will show evidence of an active infection.
Once again...this is not a mystery.


> > >
> > > Many professionals also consider staph in bone samples to be
"normal".
> > >
> > >
> > > The point in the book about no harm being done if a hole is drilled in
> > > the jaw that later heals, is also very telling. Most dentists do not
> > > know how to LOOK for infection.
> > >
> >
> > While I agree this is a point made in the book, it is not true.
> >
>
> Ahhh, but it is! Because you can't find what you don't look for.
> How do you find infection if you just go by x-ray and do no
> exploratory surgery. I am guessing that in orthapedic surgery
> the surgeon has special methods to look for and clean all
> infection in the leg bone. Are similar methods used in dentistry?
> A patient comes into your office with a pocket of infection near
> the tooth but in the jaw with a skip area. How do you find it since
> you state with supreme confidence that it is not a problem?
>

I have no idea what "Because you can't find what you don't look for." means.
Are you suggesting that we look for infections when there is no evidence of
a problem? Should we be wrestling random people to the ground and doing
exploratory surgery just in case there is something going on? Attempts to
diagnose are made when there is a reason. If there are no radiographic signs
of pathology, no clinical signs of infection, no complaints do you still
look for a problem?

I'll play along with your example...you say " A patient comes into your
office with a pocket of infection near the tooth but in the jaw with a skip
area. How do you find it since you state with supreme confidence that it is
not a problem?"

How do you know there is an infection? What are the symptoms? why did
patient come in? any recent changes in general health? by skip area do you
mean an area where tooth was lost? I need to know why I would even suspect
there was a problem.

> >
> > I am not being misleading. The premise of the book and the comments made
by
> > the author on this board suggested he had found some mysterious problems
> > that others cannot find. The photos DO show areas of pathology, my point
is
> > that for the most part they are showing common conditions. If one
proposes
> > to you they have found Atlantis and then shows you pictures of Atlantic
City
> > instead wouldn't you wonder why?
>
> The point is about the mechanics of infection detection and treatment.
> Nowhere has Dr. Kulacz said he has discovered a new disease.
>

No, what he repeatedly suggests is that he has insight into this issue and
others cannot or will not understand it. The reason I am reading this book
is because he failed to prove this premise on his web site, failed to prove
it in his exchanges on this NG, and failed to prove it in his "published"
article.

> > >
> > > 4) It may seem trival to show a hole eatent through the sinus or a
> > > cavitation,
> > > until you are the patient who has gone to 100 dentists, who
couldn't
> > > "find"
> > > these things because they didn't show on an x-ray.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Show me someone who saw 100 (I know you are exagerationg for
effect)...or
> > even 10 dentists who couldn't find such a problem.
>
> You need to read the jaw infection groups which I gave the link to.
> Many people go to
> 4 or 5 OS's easy who claim no infection exists only to have it found
> later in surgery. How are you going to find an area of infection, for
> example a cavitation that doesn't show
> on x-ray, or polymicrobial infection that has invaded the bone with
> extremely subtle
> signs on an MRI.

What about other tests that show signs of infection? Why don't these work??

> You have to open the jaw up. Somehow you imagine that
> you can do nothing to look for infection, even after you admit that
> x-rays are limited and we know that even swabs taken DIRECTLY from the
> infected are frequently fail to grow the infected bacteria. So how are
> you going to find rot in the jaw or above the tooth if you can't see it
> and you can't test for it?

Do you have a clue how infections affect the body? Go look up the common
tests used to find infections and explain to me why none of these will
reveal these kinds of infections or explain why you "can't test for it"...I
think this is nonsense.

>
> >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > You misquote me and then say I am being misleading. Go re-read the book.
It
> > lists several pages of remote or systemic infections in a section about
oral
> > infection. Can these complications occur? Possibly, but they are rare
but
> > that is not the impression an uneducated reader would get.
>
> I'm still looking for the book, but does the section say that these are
> caused by
> most RC?

Yes...but go find the book...you won't believe what I tell you anyway.

> Secondly how do you know what is rare and what is not. Again
> no
> meaningful studies have been done by the ADA to investigate these
> issues, or even
> to meaningfully quantify non-severe effects on the immune system a RC
> may have.

Funny...How do YOU know what is rare and what is not? and where are the
meaningful studies that shaped your opinion?

> By the way many patients agree with Dr. Kulacz's views on RC
>

Which means what? Many patients agree with my views...shall we take a poll
and decide on that basis? Maybe we can arm wrestle or size up to decide this
issue. Let me know what you decide...until then, I will continue to
disagree.

> With what authority have you determined the scope of immune system
> effects caused
> by RC, or even the average level of infection that remains. You cannot
> casually dismiss
> any reference to that and try to imply that only "severe" effects
> though "uncommon"
> would be possible, then use that false premise to conclude that
> therefore all discussion
> on that topic is exaggerated.
>

Authority? Did I need to ask someone's permission to formulate an opinion??
I believe I have full authority to express my opinion, and it is just as I
stated. You obviously believe otherwise...perhaps we should just leave it at
that...as these circles we are going in seem to be getting rather pointless.

T


.

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