Re: Dental Records


the patient is truly paying for or funding the

creaion of the records and in addition paying for the diagnosis and
clincal judgement."
_________________________________


I couldn't disagree more.


"Well on the bill then it should have an itemization for records cost."

There is no separate "records cost" for itemization.

When you buy a loaf of bread, is there an itemization for packaging
cost? For shelving cost? For transportation cost to ship the bread to
the grocer?

I suppose we could argue this both ways. Actually the patient owns
the records idea was put forth by someone else on another list. However
in terms of food consider the following:

You go to a restuarant and request a meal. Some restuarants,
especially buffets do not allow food to be taken from the restuarant.
Now suppose you go to a restuarant and at the end of the evening food
is left over and the restuarant has no policy about food leaving the
restuarant? Who should get the food? the restuarant since they had to
"create" the "whole meal" for the diner as a necessary step in
providing the contracted dining experience?
or the diner who afterall, actually paid for the leftover food.
Similarly, when a patient leaves an office who has more right to the
"leftover x-rays" the "cook/dentist" who created the x-rays as a
necessary part of the dental visit, or the patient, who afterall funded
the materials and x-ray use?


Or think of it this way, the city contracts an artist to paint a mural.

As part of the cost the artist requests money for paints and other
materials.
The artist surely would not be expected to pay for these materials
himself!
When the mural is done, who should have possesion of the mural? The
city, obviously because they paid for it. Now who should have possesion
of the leftover paints, sketchbooks and other materials. The city, they
paid for that too!

Should the transportation cost of the breor ad be further broken down and
itemized? How about the cost of the gasoline, the oil, the cost of the
driver for the bakery truck? How about the cost of the insurance for
the truck owner?

If you pay for the truck as part of the delivery cost, who should get
the truck
after the bread is delivered? That is why I am saying, that the patient
bought
the films for the dentist unless the dentist never passes that cost
onto the
patient. So the patient should own what they buy at the conclusion of
the
transaction.

All a dentist does when creating a "record" is to jot down some notes,
and put them together in an organized fashion for his future needs.

I am thinking more of x-rays. However a patient has an expectation
that records are being created which they can access. at any rate
if the patient pays for the index cards, notebook, pens etc.. guess
who should own them at the end of the visit? In fact by paying for
record
materials, the patient is funding the creation/storage of records which
satisfy a dentists legal obligations. Now if you said, I , the dentist
have
a legal burden to retain records as a result of treating you and
therefore
I will be applying some of the fee's towards that cost, or instead not
crediting
you for buying the records, I may agree that the paitent doesn't own
the
records.

How much does it cost YOU to jot down some notes? To buy the pens,
pencils and paper? The paper clips? Staples? Cover folders? The only
certainty is that no number would be accurate, as it would be
impossible to figure all the variables.

If I was a contractor I would buy my own pens before taking notes for
an installation. However if I passed that cost on to the consumer I
would
gladly give them my sketches/notes.


The idea of itemization for such things is sheer folly.


"Unless the dentist pays for the film himself and the cost of using the
machine (which I doubt) "

What?? UNLESS??

OF COURSE the dentist is paying for the film! What dental supply
company would send the film to the dentist unless he paid for it?


That is not what i said. Is the cost of the film passed to the
consumer?

And the cost of using the machine? Huge! And the dentist pays for ALL
of it. I had to pay many thousands of dollars for my xray machine and
the associated developing and viewing setup, not to mention the more
recent computer setup to digitize the films when necessary.

So how much do your charge for x-rays? Is that free? Suppose Bill gates
payed for a new specialized x-ray machine in the 3rd world addition to
the films to help make a difficult oral cancer diagnosis for
underprivelaged patients. Should he own the x-ray machine ??? The
answer is yes! The dentists doesn't get too keep it becaue they
required the machine as part of their professional services.


The patient is ALSO "truly paying" for the dentist's daily food and
shelter.

The patient is paying for the professional services ONCE. The dentist
then uses that payment for whatever they want. The patient is not
paying twice for the services and the food!

The dentists performs work, and for this work, he deserves
payment. That is how he makes his living.

If the patient "truly pays" for the creation of the records, then by
the same reasoning, he also "truly pays" for the dentist's clothing,

No, because the clothing is bought with money that the patient payed
the dentist for a service. In the case of leftover records there is no
service.
Now if the dentist took money which the patient payed for diagnosis and
then said, I will use this money I have earned to buy x-rays for you, I

would agree that in a monetary/ethical sense the patient would have
no right to the x-rays.



Presumably, the patient works for a living, just like the dentist. I
assume the patient's employer pays him for his work. Does that same
patient then believe that his employer owns the patient's house and his
car?

They certainly own all the records created a work, the electronic
records,
EVEN ideas and or patients the patient may create while at work!
Do you think that an employee could say to an employer, I quit and I'm
taking all the reports and records I created while I was working for
you
since they were a necessary part of my professional/creative process.
NOOOO, they own everything, and believe me they let you know it too!

.

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