Re: Do Dentists make more money than Doctors in USA?


"Mark & Steven Bornfeld" <bornfeldmung@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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Patient wrote:

"Steven Bornfeld" <dentaltwinmung@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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daveywavey1000@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

For comparison, in the U.S. a general practice physician may practice
after a one-year internship. However, last I'd heard about 85% of
physicians in the U.S. choose to specialize. This is the reverse of
dentistry here, where 85% choose to remain generalists. Most medical
and surgical specialists however have lengthy postgrad training
regimens--probably a minimum of 3 years post-internship. There are
necessarily sub-specialties--pediatric dermatologists, pathologists
with
a specialty in lung cancer, etc.--so the training can get as arcane as
one wishes. I don't know if there are specific certifying boards in
all
of the subspecialties though.
The length of training may tend to winnow out enough candidates that
the few making it through have a greater ability to keep fees high. Of
course, your national health and our managed care severely disrupt what
would be the natural course of affairs if there were a purely open
marketplace.
Certainly, compensation in employment has never had a straight-line
relationship to length and difficulty in training. In the past 3
years,
my wife's income has been roughly twice mine. She is a real estate
agent in what was a superheated market (now precipitously cooling
down).
Her total training for her license was 13 weeks of a 2 hour/week
course. She told me I should do more crowns now.

But that's not typical. It's like actors, the average actor earns $10k a
year with a handful at the top making the big money. Same in real estate.
But what you earn is only partly connected to the amount of education and
skills you have once you're over a certain level. You've seen those
statistics about the difference between someone with a college degree
compared to someone without and they are correct. But I think that as far as
your capacity to make money is concerned someone with a master's would not
necessarily make more, or someone with a Ph.d might not earn more than a
master's or just a bachelor's.
Then you have the exceptions like Bill Gates (and he is not unique) who
never even attended University.



Steve


--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001



a) Most doctors here (in Australia) would laugh at the concept of 3
years post internship for specialty training being described as "long".
Surgical training typically takes 8 years post-internship here in
Australia. Of course, you need to add on a few extra years to suck up
to the relevant people in hospital so that you are offered a position
in one of the preferred specialties in the first place.

I would want to be sure we're not comparing apples and lychee nuts.
Typical MDs in the U.S. have graduated with a science degree and in the
top 10% of their graduating class. Medical school is typically 4 years,
internship 1 year, residency 3-6, maybe more. I'm hardly an expert. But
even assuming 3 years, this is 8 years post secondary education, so most
of these surgeons are pushing 30 before they open their practice. Many
specialties are doubtless longer. But you might more profitably check
this in medical forums.



b) 85% of doctors are specialists in USA??? OMG!!! In Australia, much
lower.

c)If a real estate agent in boom times makes twice as much as a typical
dentist,

Nah, I'm just a kept man. But the party is about over.


either american estate agents get much more money than Aussie

ones (unlikely) or American dentists clearly don't make as much as
Aussie ones (more likely).

New York is a superheated market. Even in Brooklyn where I live prices
have about tripled in the past 10 years. But when an average apartment
in a secondary neighborhood in Brooklyn is north of $500,000, you know
things can't go on forever.


Of course they can't. Look at the average incomes then calculate what
mortage a person would qualify for. If you put 20% (100k)down on a $500k
property your mortage would be $400k and banks generally give you a
mortage 2.5 x your income.So you would have to be earning $150k per year
and have the $100k as a down payment. Even in NYC the average family
income is about $70k and there are also many $10hr workers as well. So
how do most people survive there? The answer is that there are about 1m
rent controlled apts. which appear to be passed down through families(and
sometimes even unrelated people) like family heirlooms lol So that many
people are only paying $300-500 in rent on something that might rent for
10x as much on the open market. Former mayor Ed Koch was paying $300 for
his rent controlled Greenwich Village apt. while living at Gracie
mansion. Also, there is a small % of super rich who buy or rent all of
these multi million apts. or houses you see advertised in the Times. So
while I think the high priced market can't go on forever with prices
rising; since this market only effects a small group of people it very
well may improve.


A small correction; most of the regulated apartments are "stabilized", not
"controlled". Rent control has pretty much gone by the boards, though you
still hear of the odd 4 BR apartment on the Upper West side of Manhattan
renting for $200. Rent stabilization is another story--I believe every
rental with 6 or more units falls under the rent stabilization law.
However, many of these fall under vacancy decontrol, and many of these
apartments are sold as co-ops when they vacate. I have no idea how many
apartments still fall under rent stabilization, but I doubt it's a
million.
I have been a tenant, and I live with a woman who has been in apartment
management, so I can easily see both sides of this issue and what it's
done to the housing market in NY.
One more thing--most banks do not require income verification if a certain
percentage of the purchase price is put down (I think it's 20%, but I'm
not sure). During the time prices were accellerating quickly this could
be a problem as many properties would not appraise for the selling price
(this is determined by looking at comparable sales in the neighborhood;
prices were rising so quickly that comparable sales even 6 months before
were at much lower prices).

Steve





Steve


I am not a dentist, but I do know some, and also know some people who
are accountants and do some accounts of dentists. A dentist running
their own practice will typically make about 300K profit (before tax).
Admittedly that's aussie dollars, so is only $225K American dollars -
but the cost of living is arguably cheaper in Australia (though
probably not in Sydney).






--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001


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Relevant Pages

  • Re: Do Dentists make more money than Doctors in USA?
    ... dentistry here, where 85% choose to remain generalists. ... New York is a superheated market. ... The answer is that there are about 1m rent controlled apts. ... So while I think the high priced market can't go on forever with prices rising; since this market only effects a small group of people it very well may improve. ...
    (sci.med.dentistry)
  • Re: Do Dentists make more money than Doctors in USA?
    ... dentistry here, where 85% choose to remain generalists. ... New York is a superheated market. ... The answer is that there are about 1m rent controlled apts. ... So while I think the high priced market can't go on forever with prices rising; since this market only effects a small group of people it very well may improve. ...
    (sci.med.dentistry)
  • Re: Do Dentists make more money than Doctors in USA?
    ... dentistry here, where 85% choose to remain generalists. ... New York is a superheated market. ... The answer is that there are about 1m rent controlled apts. ... So while I think the high priced market can't go on forever with prices rising; since this market only effects a small group of people it very well may improve. ...
    (sci.med.dentistry)
  • Re: Do Dentists make more money than Doctors in USA?
    ... dentistry here, where 85% choose to remain generalists. ... New York is a superheated market. ... Even in Brooklyn where I live prices ... rent controlled apts. ...
    (sci.med.dentistry)
  • Re: Do Dentists make more money than Doctors in USA?
    ... dentistry here, where 85% choose to remain generalists. ... 85% of doctors are specialists in USA??? ... New York is a superheated market. ... The answer is that there are about 1m rent controlled apts. ...
    (sci.med.dentistry)