Re: Do Dentists make more money than Doctors in USA?

Patient wrote:
"Mark & Steven Bornfeld" <bornfeldmung@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:yBZ8h.5336$IW2.2813@xxxxxxxxxxx
Patient wrote:

"Steven Bornfeld" <dentaltwinmung@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:5V08h.876$ql2.388@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

daveywavey1000@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

For comparison, in the U.S. a general practice physician may practice
after a one-year internship. However, last I'd heard about 85% of
physicians in the U.S. choose to specialize. This is the reverse of
dentistry here, where 85% choose to remain generalists. Most medical
and surgical specialists however have lengthy postgrad training
regimens--probably a minimum of 3 years post-internship. There are
necessarily sub-specialties--pediatric dermatologists, pathologists with
a specialty in lung cancer, etc.--so the training can get as arcane as
one wishes. I don't know if there are specific certifying boards in all
of the subspecialties though.
The length of training may tend to winnow out enough candidates that
the few making it through have a greater ability to keep fees high. Of
course, your national health and our managed care severely disrupt what
would be the natural course of affairs if there were a purely open
marketplace.
Certainly, compensation in employment has never had a straight-line
relationship to length and difficulty in training. In the past 3 years,
my wife's income has been roughly twice mine. She is a real estate
agent in what was a superheated market (now precipitously cooling down).
Her total training for her license was 13 weeks of a 2 hour/week
course. She told me I should do more crowns now.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001


a) Most doctors here (in Australia) would laugh at the concept of 3
years post internship for specialty training being described as "long".
Surgical training typically takes 8 years post-internship here in
Australia. Of course, you need to add on a few extra years to suck up
to the relevant people in hospital so that you are offered a position
in one of the preferred specialties in the first place.
I would want to be sure we're not comparing apples and lychee nuts. Typical MDs in the U.S. have graduated with a science degree and in the top 10% of their graduating class. Medical school is typically 4 years, internship 1 year, residency 3-6, maybe more. I'm hardly an expert. But even assuming 3 years, this is 8 years post secondary education, so most of these surgeons are pushing 30 before they open their practice. Many specialties are doubtless longer. But you might more profitably check this in medical forums.



b) 85% of doctors are specialists in USA??? OMG!!! In Australia, much
lower.

c)If a real estate agent in boom times makes twice as much as a typical
dentist,
Nah, I'm just a kept man. But the party is about over.


either american estate agents get much more money than Aussie

ones (unlikely) or American dentists clearly don't make as much as
Aussie ones (more likely).
New York is a superheated market. Even in Brooklyn where I live prices have about tripled in the past 10 years. But when an average apartment in a secondary neighborhood in Brooklyn is north of $500,000, you know things can't go on forever.

Of course they can't. Look at the average incomes then calculate what mortage a person would qualify for. If you put 20% (100k)down on a $500k property your mortage would be $400k and banks generally give you a mortage 2.5 x your income.So you would have to be earning $150k per year and have the $100k as a down payment. Even in NYC the average family income is about $70k and there are also many $10hr workers as well. So how do most people survive there? The answer is that there are about 1m rent controlled apts. which appear to be passed down through families(and sometimes even unrelated people) like family heirlooms lol So that many people are only paying $300-500 in rent on something that might rent for 10x as much on the open market. Former mayor Ed Koch was paying $300 for his rent controlled Greenwich Village apt. while living at Gracie mansion. Also, there is a small % of super rich who buy or rent all of these multi million apts. or houses you see advertised in the Times. So while I think the high priced market can't go on forever with prices rising; since this market only effects a small group of people it very well may improve.

A small correction; most of the regulated apartments are "stabilized", not "controlled".

Yes most are now rent stablized but the rents are still low compared to market value which means that those building sell for a much lower price due to the low income generated. It's all relative.

For an apartment to be rent controlled the tenant must have been living there continuously since July 1, 1971. When a rent controlled apartment becomes vacant, it either becomes rent stabilized or is removed from regulation

Rent stabilized units in New York City are those apartments in buildings of six or more units in buildings built between February 1, 1947 and January 1, 1974. Tenants are entitled to receive required services to have their leases renewed and may not be evicted except on the grounds allowed by law



Rent control has pretty much gone by the boards,
though you still hear of the odd 4 BR apartment on the Upper West side of Manhattan renting for $200. Rent stabilization is another story--I believe every rental with 6 or more units falls under the rent stabilization law. However, many of these fall under vacancy decontrol, and many of these apartments are sold as co-ops when they vacate.

The owners usually have to pay the tenant to move out. Or the tenant has the right of first refusal at the inside price.


I
have no idea how many apartments still fall under rent stabilization, but I doubt it's a million.

It's still pretty high. It's like 50% of all rentals which is down from 77%
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/1382342/posts



I have been a tenant, and I live with a woman who has been in apartment management, so I can easily see both sides of this issue and what it's done to the housing market in NY.
One more thing--most banks do not require income verification if a certain percentage of the purchase price is put down (I think it's 20%, but I'm not sure).

I think it's higher.


During the time prices were accellerating quickly
this could be a problem as many properties would not appraise for the selling price (this is determined by looking at comparable sales in the neighborhood; prices were rising so quickly that comparable sales even 6 months before were at much lower prices).

That's true. But I think that unstable markets are really bad. Eventually all housing will be deregulated then you'll just have the free market so I have to wonder how many people will be able to afford housing in the city then. If there is an excess of high priced housing with no takers you'll see a big drop. It happened in the '80's, not due to deregulation but just too many vacancies and not enough renters especially in the commercial area. You could get a 1 bedroom at Battery Park city for like $60k-80! I was going to buy couple but didn't think they would rise at the time lol

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/14829


Thanks for the info. I had an office on the S. Shore of Long Island between '83 and '86. At the time there was a gross overbuilding of retail space, and some new shopping centers out there were about half vacant. I know a lot of people thought the builders had learned their lesson, but the evidence seems to show otherwise.

Steve


Steve




Steve


I am not a dentist, but I do know some, and also know some people who
are accountants and do some accounts of dentists. A dentist running
their own practice will typically make about 300K profit (before tax).
Admittedly that's aussie dollars, so is only $225K American dollars -
but the cost of living is arguably cheaper in Australia (though
probably not in Sydney).




--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Do Dentists make more money than Doctors in USA?
    ... dentistry here, where 85% choose to remain generalists. ... New York is a superheated market. ... The answer is that there are about 1m rent controlled apts. ... So while I think the high priced market can't go on forever with prices rising; since this market only effects a small group of people it very well may improve. ...
    (sci.med.dentistry)
  • Re: Do Dentists make more money than Doctors in USA?
    ... dentistry here, where 85% choose to remain generalists. ... New York is a superheated market. ... Even in Brooklyn where I live prices ... rent controlled apts. ...
    (sci.med.dentistry)
  • Re: Do Dentists make more money than Doctors in USA?
    ... dentistry here, where 85% choose to remain generalists. ... New York is a superheated market. ... The answer is that there are about 1m rent controlled apts. ... So while I think the high priced market can't go on forever with prices rising; since this market only effects a small group of people it very well may improve. ...
    (sci.med.dentistry)
  • Re: Do Dentists make more money than Doctors in USA?
    ... dentistry here, where 85% choose to remain generalists. ... New York is a superheated market. ... Even in Brooklyn where I live prices ... rent controlled apts. ...
    (sci.med.dentistry)
  • Re: Do Dentists make more money than Doctors in USA?
    ... dentistry here, where 85% choose to remain generalists. ... 85% of doctors are specialists in USA??? ... New York is a superheated market. ... The answer is that there are about 1m rent controlled apts. ...
    (sci.med.dentistry)