Re: Steere/Yale MAJOR screw-up.

From: derdrittemann (derdrittemann2003_at_yahoo.com)
Date: 07/19/04 

Date: 19 Jul 2004 11:49:05 -0700

a_weisman@yahoo.com (A_Weisman) wrote in message news:<e55e6d97.0407190645.6353541d@posting.google.com>...
>arguments AND respond to them...well)...
> >
> "Yes it matters to me".

Then perhaps you should join a board where they talk about these
things...in case you haven't heard...this is a Lyme disease discussion
board..."news group", whatever.
>
> > Since you asked...it was a general observation that you should not
> > get too involved as many academics do...in an isolated defense of the
> > authors of the philosophical antecedents of Nazi Germany.
>
> "And I don't consider Nietzsche a philosophical antecedent of Nazi
> Germany".

Good for you. Hooray.
>
> >The point
> > being, is that these views evolved from their authors being immersed
> > in a culture that would later become Nazism...and that they were
> > expressing viewpoints, undercurrents, philosophies, that were
> > "germane"(pun intended) to their experiences in that culture. In the
> > classroom, the cultural context is often missing and you look at the
> > substance only...in isolation. The anti-Semitism of the Nazi regime,
> > for instance, was rampant in Europe, and especially the "German"
> > states and Austria from at least the 15th century. Wagner and
> > Nietzsche both indirectly experienced this anti-Semitism. Wagner
> > espoused it. Nietzsche, as I understand it, was repelled by it...but
> > was highly critical of Judaism. (I am using anti-Semitism only as an
> > example, here. Pesonally, I do not believe it was a particularly
> > important aspect of the Nazi movement...but it is the one with the
> > most "currency" now).
> >
> > Specifically, I was remembering the "ubermensch"...(and its
> > intentional misinterpretation during WWII)...and NOT any accusation of
> > "nihilisim". So...you jumped on the wrong dog, there.
>
> "Well the overman or superman concept as expressed by Nietzche had
> nothing to do with Aryan purity nor did it serve as a legitimate
> antecedent of any philosophy espoused by Nazis".

I just said as much.

Look at the above statement. See the phrase..."INTENTIONAL
MISREPRESENTATION"? Do you understand what that means? See...this is
EXACTLY the inattentiveness that I am telling you about.
>
> "As to his placement in the cultural milieu that eventually became Nazi
> Gerrmany, well if you check, until the 20th century, most philosophers
> came from Greece or Rome or later Europe, especially Germany and
> Austria".

You seem to think there now exists an excuse for you to write an essay
about German philosophy. I assure you...neither I...nor probably about
99.99% of the people on this board give a damn.
>
> "I don't know. Do you reject Platonic thought because of the excesses
> of the roman empire? Do we reject Freud because he was german? Should
> we reject most of western philosophy because of the political actions
> of the countries of origin of philosophers"?

Who cares? (Freud was an Austrian Jew).
>
> "Do we reject 20th century philosophy because much of it had its
> origins in France"?

What in the f--k are you talking about? Wait...please don't tell me.
>
> Wow.
>
> "Look I don't think it is fair to reject Democracy because of Bush and
> Rumsfeld and Ashcroft.

That's intelligent.
>
> Maybe you're right. This isn't worth discussing here. And there seems
> to be a long way between us here. I'm happy to defend Nietzsche though
> no matter what cultural milieu he happened to emerge from".

Yes...well, that's nice. Except the point was that the very QUESTION
was wrong...NOT that Nietzsche was a Nazi...or that he was an
historical precedent.
Congragulate yourself for defending philosophy, Nietzsche, democracy
and intellectual freedom. Hooray for you.

C-.

 
 "The author is not a lawyer. Point 4 did call for complaints based on
> scholarly authorship. That was how it was meant and how Lymeland acted
> upon it".

How do you know who the author was?

When you say "that was how it was meant and how Lymeland acted upon
it"...are you suggesting that we should draw an inference of what was
intended by the speaker based upon how others perceived it? Gee,...I
dunno about that,but it would seem then that Nietzsche is in BIG
trouble.
>
> "By the way ALL of the complaints against Dr Steere were rejected as
> lacking merit and foundation".

And does that mean...that they actually did lack merit and foundation?
>
>
> "Sorry my interpretation was how it was meant and acted upon and how
> most people read it".

And that is an incorrect mode of analysis...and you should know
better.
>
  
> "See I'm NOT trying to respond to arguments not made. I AM trying to
> ferret out and explore some of what I think are fair implications of
> people's statements".

And I have just shown you several examples of where you have done
exactly that...respondedd to arguments not made.
>
> "If they're not fair implications, well then people can say that.

They are NOT "fair" implications.

 "But
> sometimes I still disagree and think that people have said something
> which can be inferred to mean something beyond the statement and it is
> fair to respond to that. Because too often (and I'm NOT talking about
> you der) people say things and haven't thought them through especially
> the implications of their statements. Or actions".

That, in my opinion, is EXTREMELY disrespectful of others.

It is NOT for YOU to say what others meant. If you don't
understand...why don't you ask them to explain?
>
> "I know you find it annoying".

Extremely. And rude...and displaying a total lack of respect for
others.
> > >
>
> >In Steere's case...you should recognize that his works
> > are believed by some to be the justification for undertreatment of
> > Lyme. Undertreating a disease...is...as I understand it...a potential
> > for disciplinary action.
>
> "So? Democracy and freedom are thought by Bush to be the justification
> for unilateral preemptive democractic imperialism. I don't reject
> democracy or freedom because of his misinterpretations. Nor do I
> reject christianity because of his misinterpretation of that".

Could you please lay off the analogies...digressions, distractions? If
you want to talk about Steere...then talk about Steere and leave
Nietzsche and Bush and godknowswho else out of it.

It is a boneheaded thing to do anyway...to inject partisan politics
into the discussion of Lyme. Republicans get it also.

 "I'll respond to what people are saying AND THE FAIR IMPLICATIONS OF
> THEIR STATEMENTS".

Yes, well...LOL...and you'll decide waht the FAIR implications of
their statements are?

In case you are not understanding here...what I am trying to say to
you is that you aren't even understanding what I was saying...in re
Nietzsche...(but that is just an example)...and no, your responses
were NOT "fair implications".

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