Re: NY OPMC Vetoes

a_weisman_at_yahoo.com
Date: 12/24/04 

Date: 24 Dec 2004 06:53:56 -0800

Subject: Re: NY OPMC Vetoes
From: "GregGerber@hotmail.com" GregGerber@hotmail.com
Newsgroups: sci.med.diseases.lyme
Date: 23 Dec 2004 05:14:34 -0800
Message-ID: <1103807674.019604.63480@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 13:14:39 +0000 (UTC)
In-Reply-To: <1103743548.422712.177810@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>

>I don't want to keep this going, but you are confusing absolute truth
>and falsehood with point of view. Moreover, there's no conceivable
>motive for lying here. Keep in mind, I AGREE with you that the OPMC
>bill won't much help Lyme patients, agree with you about FAIM. I
simply
>disagree that after you have expressed your point of view to others
and
>have had them reject it you can now call them liars. They do not see
>things as you do. period. But there is no point in going on here. I
>think that WE should agree to disagree. GG

Greggy you really are a phantom, ALL of your posts from this thread
have disappeared. What's up with that? You participate in a discussion
and then remove ALL of your posts? Why?

Very strange.

Is it so that you can't be held to account for the things you've said?
So that you can be completely inconsistent but no one can prove it?

I don't get it.

Anyhow with respect to your quoted text above:

NO you are wrong again. And I am going to say that your attempt to
steal the moral high ground and claim it for yourself if offensive.

It isn't that I am "confusing" my point of view with "truth" and that I
confuse "disagreement" with LYING.

It is that YOU are so insistent on some standard of moral relativism in
your constant apologias for the LIES that you can't see that some
things are TRUE, that there are FACTS here.

I think you are incredibly naive when it comes to politics.

You constantly excuse the inexcusable.

Your best argument amounts to, well these people HAVE been screwed over
and mistreated so one can't blame THEM.

But that is bull***.

Yes they've been screwed over and mistreated, abused and lied to.

But as much by their own "leaders" as by "the other side."

And there's no excuse for that.

That is NOT "leadership" and particularly not altruistic leadership.
That is like slaves complaining of slavery only to be freed and then
enslave others for their own benefit.

I agree that Lyme patients have a bad lot, that they've been abused and
mistreated.

But that doesn't justify EVEYTHING they do in response. It doesn't make
it smart.

And it doesn't give them carte blanche.

As Sir Der pointed out, the response of being accused of being insane
ignorant fear mongering hypochondriacs has been to act like insane
ignorant fear mongering hyochondriacs (I'm paraphrasing) and that is
just stupid.

And, no Greg, I'm not confusing my point of view with absolute truth.

I am saying that I am sick of the "leaders" telling us one thing when
they KNOW something else. And they say one thing publicly but another
privately. Continuing these policies of SECRECY and SECRET (but always
stupid and disastrous) strategies.

This amounts to them manipulating us or trying to. And that is
deceptive deceitful and involves LYING.

I'm just as sick or sicker of your apologias and excuses for them. I
suspect that you know better. And later you backtrack and say that YOU
didn't feel misled which ignores the point that they ARE misleading
others.

And Sir Der and I have shown quotes where they say one thing but
simultaneously say another and y ou say well, they 've made it clear
(to YOU) that their tactic is to advance the cause IN THE FUTURE even
as they tell people it is about the cause NOW.

How is that anything but a LIE?

Not even in a clintonesque meaning of is, is, is that defensible as
anything but a LIE.

And then YOU criticize ME for calling a spade a spade?

Gimme a break greg. Maybe you should spend your time removing all your
posts instead of wasting mine with this nonsense.

LIES LIES LIES that's what it is Greg. ANd the righteousness of the
claimed underlying cause doesn't justify it.

Their LIES and INCOMPETENCE are reasons that they have forfeit any
right to "lead" or claim to NOT justifications for their despicable
actions.

In my opinion it is as bad or worse for our "leaders" to LIE to us
after we've been lied to by others for so long.

YES there are conceivable motives to lie. These people are self
aggrandizing and that is enough. They are pushing what you claim is an
agenda to advance a cause in the future that they know is futile now
but they believe that is the only way to garner the support of the
masses now.

Which is stupid. If they told people on LymeNUT that the purpose of all
the calls and emails and FAXes now is to advance the bill in the
future, those morons would still respond to the action alerts, at least
the same morons would.

Not to mention it is a stupid naive tactic likely to backfire.

Now here's ANOTHER motive to LIE. FAIM and Monica Miller are USING
Lymeland to advance THEIR agenda. IF they told Lymeland that the OPMC
is NOT about Lyme or about saving OUR doctors, who would support it? If
they told everyone that what they are pusing for is a blanket immunity
for dangerous fraudulent practices and snake oil salespeople preying on
desperate and vulnerable people plying false hopes and robbing people
of money and health and real hope, well who would support that?
Klinghard devotees like gigi from LymeNUT and the moron Skyking Rosner
and some other whackos sure. But not most of LymeLAND.

So EL may be one of the stupidest ninnies ever and not really know that
the LIES she disseminates are LIES. She may be TOTALLY AND UTTERLY
INCOMPETENT and not a LIAR AND AN INCOMPETENT.

I dunno, though I can say with certainty that she's been told enough
times that it is a reasonable inference that no matter how stupid she
actually is that it has to be apparent that what she's saying are
LIES.

Either way does this speak well of her?

This isn't simply that I and many others have expressed a "point of
view" and EL and others don't agree.

It is a FACT that the NYS OPMC reform bill is NOT ABOUT LYME AND ISN'T
ABOUT SAVING OUR "LLMDS" AND THAT MANY OR MOST OF WHAT EL AND FAIM
CLAIM ABOUT THE BILL IS SIMPLY NOT TRUE.

It isn't a difference of opinion greg. It is a difference that is
factually demonstrable. They are saying things that ARE NOT TRUE. I am
saying things that are FACTS and ARE TRUE.

People who knowingly speak untruths, well, that makes them LIARS.

Plain and simple. It isn't perspective or opinion or moral relatavism
or justified by mistreatment or righteousness of cause.

And the fact that you continue to insist otherwise is inexplicable.
Obviously you're an intelligent fairly well informed person
knowledgable about Lyme and Lyme politics and history.

So I have to wonder whether you have some other agenda, one OTHER than
the role of "watchdog" or "watchdog of the watchdogs" that you claim.

And then ALL of your posts dissapear and the only way I know of for
that to happen is that you deliberately removed them. And without being
accused of being a conspiracy theorist I really have to wonder why?:

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