Re: From the Medics, Unhealthy Silence

From: WitchWirsen (johncwirsen_at_mchsi.com)
Date: 03/23/05

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    Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 03:38:16 GMT

    "Jurassic Pierogi" <jurassic_pierogi@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:4778ebf3.0503180341.1a366d21@posting.google.com...
    > "WitchWirsen" <johncwirsen@mchsi.com> wrote in message
    > news:<vQr_d.79862$r55.27916@attbi_s52>...
    >> You are full of ***.
    >> Inmates get better medical care in the state of Missouri than working
    >> citizens who have committed no crimes.
    >>
    >> And coming from a family filled with law enforcement, and one LE of over
    >> 50
    >> years, I resent your remarks about how they operate.
    >> It's hogwash.
    >
    > And seeing that 80% are dopers, I would imagine meeting one of your
    > family LEO's would turn out to be a bad day for just about anyone.

    My generation. 80% or so, including our spouses.
    My mothers generation, and her parents generation is a whole different
    matter.
    My grandfathers brother, for instance, was a constable in the same county
    for over 50 years.
    My cousin, aunts son, is a guard at a prison.
    And there are more, sadly, the druggies out number these days.

    And no, you would never see anyone in my family stand around laughing while
    someone lay dying on a floor.
    And no, you wouldn't even see them tickled at an addict having DT's.

    Not the LEs, and not the Druggies.

    >
    > But of course it's hogwash. Your doper LEO relatives would never stand
    > around and laugh at prisoners dying on the floor in front of them.
    >
    >>
    >>
    >> "kathleen" <kathleen.dickson@snet.net> wrote in message
    >> news:1111095050.955861.131750@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    >> These questions need to be asked about American
    >> prisons in general. They get notoriously bad healthcare
    >> and dental care. If you have a crown that needs to be
    >> finished, the dentists will offer you to have the tooth
    >> pulled.
    >>
    >> The inmates die of HIV and no one cares, 85% of the
    >> kitchen workers are HIV infected, and tuberculosis
    >> is not uncommon.
    >>
    >> More than half the prisoners have no teeth. The only
    >> medical care they get is Seroquel, mostly. If you are
    >> injured, the medical staff laughs, and gives no treatment.
    >>
    >> No one cares if inmates don't survive. Think about it.
    >> They don't care if you have doctor's orders or orders from
    >> the court to be treated for anything. They deny you medical
    >> care. Period.
    >>
    >> They don't report assaults to anyone. If one prisoner
    >> attacks another, they turn a blind eye, and record that it
    >> was a fight, even if it was not. They encourage the aggressors,
    >> because the guards enjoy these fights. The mentality behind
    >> that is that no one better the hell dare complain to any
    >> authorities about what goes on in the prisons, and if they
    >> think you might complain, they see to it, that you are
    >> not protected from the real psychos there.
    >>
    >> In other words, they use the other violent prisoners as
    >> an intimidation and punitive technique.
    >>
    >> This is not conjecture or hearsay.
    >>
    >> Kathleen
    >>
    >> georgia wrote:
    >> > Washington Post
    >> >
    >> > >From the Medics, Unhealthy Silence
    >> >
    >> > By Stephen N. Xenakis
    >> > Sunday, February 6, 2005; Page B04
    >> >
    >> > The recent confirmation hearings for attorney general nominee Alberto
    >> > R. Gonzales and the trials of the soldiers accused of misconduct at
    >> Abu
    >> > Ghraib have once again brought to the fore questions about the use of
    >> > torture in our war on terrorism. But one aspect that is never
    >> mentioned
    >> > -- one I believe is essential to consider -- are the actions or, more
    >> > to the point, the apparent inaction of medical personnel at both
    >> > Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib.
    >> >
    >> > Detention facilities like these typically have fully staffed clinics
    >> > with primary care physicians, nurses and a host of other support
    >> > personnel to treat American soldiers as well as detainees. Their
    >> common
    >> > duty -- from corpsmen with basic medical skills training to
    >> physicians
    >> > with leadership positions -- is to provide care according to high
    >> > standards of medical practice to all who need it and, of course, to
    >> > report any signs of physical or psychological abuse.
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > The Post's opinion and commentary section runs every Sunday.
    >> >
    >> > · Outlook Section
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
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    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > As a physician holding the title of brigadier general by the time I
    >> > retired in 1998, I directed major medical support efforts during the
    >> > 1991 Gulf War and have seen the Army leadership up close. So, as the
    >> > scandals at Abu Ghraib in Iraq and Guantanamo in Cuba unfolded, I
    >> > wondered why we had heard so little from the medics. When faced with
    >> > the twin pressures of performing their military duty and providing
    >> > treatment, did the staffs at these facilities turn a blind eye to the
    >> > physical and mental torture inflicted on the prisoners, or perhaps
    >> even
    >> > collude with interrogators? There are few other explanations for why
    >> > they didn't report suspicious findings from the examinations of the
    >> > detainees. Unless, of course, those reports were suppressed.
    >> >
    >> > I've also wondered whether the senior medical leadership of the Army,
    >> > Navy and Air Force knew of the abuses -- and whether their reports
    >> > could have been concealed.
    >> >
    >> > My growing concern has been reinforced by an appalling case of glib
    >> > reasoning, in which the office of the deputy assistant secretary of
    >> > defense for health affairs, as reported in a recent issue of the New
    >> > England Journal of Medicine, has taken the position that the medical
    >> > personnel at these facilities had not breached the Hippocratic oath
    >> > because there was not a recognized doctor-patient relationship. The
    >> > NEJM reported that the deputy assistant secretary endorsed the view
    >> > that some of the medics supporting interrogators in Iraq and
    >> Guantanamo
    >> > were operating outside the bounds of the doctor-patient relationship
    >> > and were thus not required to abide by accepted ethical guidelines.
    >> >
    >> > What precisely does this mean? That the prisoners were not being
    >> billed
    >> > by the medical personnel? That there were no neat files, none of
    >> those
    >> > signed privacy forms known as HIPAAs? Don't worry, the Defense
    >> > Department seems to be saying, being a military physician doesn't
    >> mean
    >> > that you need to stick to the time-honored maxim of "First, do no
    >> > harm"?
    >> >
    >> > Indeed, the same article noted that the office contended that the
    >> > legitimate objective of fighting terrorism trumps the ethical
    >> > responsibility of the healing practitioner. In other words, "the ends
    >> > justify the means": A few brutalized prisoners is a small price to
    >> pay
    >> > for protecting the citizens of the United States.
    >> >
    >> > According to this line of reasoning, military medical personnel
    >> should
    >> > put a higher priority on fighting the war against terrorism than on
    >> > abiding by the recognized ethical and moral principles of their
    >> > profession. Moreover, no worries about potential malpractice suits
    >> need
    >> > cloud their day; they can feel protected and relieved of the duty to
    >> > exercise personal and individual responsibility.
    >> >
    >> > That's not how I was trained. I attended both college and medical
    >> > school on Army scholarships during the turbulent years of Vietnam and
    >> > the My Lai massacre, with cynicism over the practices in our military
    >> > echoing in my ears. Fifteen years later, in 1989 and 1990, I attended
    >> > the Army War College as a medical corps colonel. At all these
    >> > institutions, clear parameters for conduct were laid out. The war
    >> > colleges teach senior officers -- future generals and admirals --
    >> that
    >> > commanders are responsible for the ethical and moral climate of their
    >> > units. They are also responsible for what the men and women who serve
    >> > under them do and don't do.
    >> >
    >> > There is no escaping the fact that responsibility for the conduct of
    >> > the medics at Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib rests with the senior
    >> > leadership of the medical departments. This leadership faced tough
    >> > questions from the outset of operations in both Afghanistan and Iraq
    >> > about how medics were supposed to treat detainees; the burden of
    >> > leadership is to ensure that high moral and ethical practices are
    >> > maintained in even the most demanding situations.
    >> >
    >> > But there is not much evidence to show that the Defense Department
    >> > wrote out guidelines for adherence to the high standards. In fact,
    >> > there is only evidence to the contrary: There are few, if any,
    >> reports
    >> > from medics about detainee abuse and there is no sign of inquiries or
    >> > reviews of the policies and conduct of the medical teams at those
    >> > facilities. But documents of testimony taken during investigation
    >> into
    >> > the abuses at Abu Ghraib recently released under the Freedom of
    >> > Information Act and posted on the Web sites of the American Civil
    >> > Liberties Union and Center for Public Integrity suggest that medical
    >> > personnel were aware of abuses, may have witnessed some and may even
    >> > have advised interrogators on the individual medical conditions of
    >> the
    >> > prisoners and their vulnerabilities to specific stresses that could
    >> > induce them to disclose valuable intelligence -- actions that may
    >> have
    >> > bordered on torture.
    >> >
    >> > With disturbing echoes of unsavory regimes in history, medics
    >> abdicated
    >> > their responsibilities toward the detainees, their patients, instead
    >> of
    >> > making interrogations more humane, more in keeping with international
    >> > standards of decency.
    >> >
    >> > Unlike soldiers, doctors have a duty to patients as well as country.
    >> > That is what separates U.S. military physicians from the German
    >> doctors
    >> > who aided the Nazis in concentration camps or, in perhaps a closer
    >> > parallel, the South African prison doctors who examined
    >> anti-apartheid
    >> > leader Steve Biko (a fellow physician no less), filed incomplete
    >> > reports, deferred to police interrogators and failed to stop the
    >> brutal
    >> > treatment that ended in Biko's death.
    >> >
    >> > But there is an even bigger failure to be reckoned with. These are
    >> > times when the country deserves great leadership, and that kind of
    >> > leadership anticipates the toughest problems. Military leaders should
    >> > first have asked the hard questions about the ethical parameters
    >> > guiding the conduct of medics and focused on the policies that
    >> governed
    >> > that conduct: What is the historical precedent; what are the best
    >> ideas
    >> > about the role of medics in this war; and what are the long-term
    >> > consequences of their actions? For these leaders to speak up as the
    >> > scandals were investigated would have taken great courage -- generals
    >> > and admirals would have been forced to retire.
    >> >
    >> > But heroism is not just the stuff of the battlefield. Patients trust
    >> > doctors, nurses and medics because they expect them to do what is
    >> right
    >> > -- to put the needs of others over their own. Nations expect their
    >> > generals to be bold and to take risks -- and to show moral courage.
    >> >
    >> > Something doesn't smell right here, and it just may be an abscess of
    >> > ethical lapses. While there can be long and learned legal discussions
    >> > about the role of torture during wartime, the medical aspect of these
    >> > discussions should be very brief: No doctor -- and no military
    >> medical
    >> > leader -- should participate in torture in any way. Either by
    >> advising
    >> > interrogators of prisoners' vulnerabilities or by simply doing
    >> nothing,
    >> > they did participate. And that says more about the problems of
    >> military
    >> > leadership than any memo on legal protections.
    >> >
    >> > Author's e-mail: snxen@aol.com
    >> >
    >> > Stephen N. Xenakis, a retired brigadier general with the U.S. Army,
    >> now
    >> > works as a child and adolescent psychiatrist at the Psychiatric
    >> > Institute of Washington.
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > © 2005 The Washington Post Company

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