Re: Kathleen, thought you might like to see this...


"LymeRayja" <lymerayja@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1129660388.735670.234680@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> kathleen wrote:
> > Yes, Thank you, I already have that on my website.
> >
> >
> > I hope you enjoy the link for the CDC.
> >
>
>
> Kathleen, dont thank Calc. She speaks like she's on our side, but she's
> actually a neo-nazi.

Gosh, Lisa what an incredibly stupid thing to say and accuse.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
I made my views clear when you went ballistic over a recent past
post of mine criticizing ZIONISM.
Speaking of brain cells waking up, maybe yours need a jumpstart.
I'm sorry that you equate Zionism only with Judaism.
Like I said in that post- I'm with the Jews Against Zionism movement
in Israel today.
TPTB (The Powers That Be) have a Zionist component as a major part
of their globalist/dominionist agenda.
I'm a "NEO-NAZI"?!
The very thought of that makes me nauseous enough to vomit.


> She believes the Steere camp (and the US army, and the world) is run by
> a world Jewish conspiracy (just as Hitler did).


I've never expressed "belief" in what you accuse above.
Do you normally make things up like that?
If you are a Jew, as you say you are, then you are a Jew of the
knee-jerk reactionary, paranoid-to-the-point-of-absurdity type of Jew.

Uhh, I like dogs (just as Hitler did).
Does that make me a Neo-Nazi?
I've tried vegetarianism (just as Hitler did).
Does that make me a Neo-Nazi?
I have a sweet tooth (just as Hitler did).
Does that make me a Neo-Nazi?

And I noticed that you threw up the holocaust in one of your last
posts to me, (the German one which lasted from the mid-1930s
to the mid 1940s) and that you had family members who died in it.
I'm sorry.
I had no part in that.
There have been other holocausts in history too.
Why didn't you throw those out in the mix?
Millions of MY PEOPLE were killed in a holocaust,
but I don't bark "Fascist!" to anyone who criticizes some of those
which make up my race and culture.
Like you do.


> In other words, I, Dr Katz, California Lyme's family and other Jewish
> Lyme victims/LLMDs are in a secret conspiracy to destroy ourselves.


Please elaborate on that.
Just out of curiosity, I'd love to see how your mind could be
so out of joint as to come to the contorted conclusion above...


> in fact, all she is doing is destroying the credibility of those of us
> who say that the Steere camp is guilty of deliberate fraud.


If anyone's "cred" has been hurt here, Lisa, it is your own.


> I advise you to stay away from her until her brain cells wake up, as
> her fascist ideas will only discredit you.
>
> Lisa


And now I'm a "fascist"?
Who are YOU?!?
Are YOU a Zionist, Lisa?
Is that why you got so mad at the words I wrote?


I came across another article - pertinent to this discussion - just today
that I'm in agreement with, for the most part. It was written by a very
wise Rabbi. Here's a quote from it:

"The ideology of Zionism is not to rely on divine providence
but to take the law into ones own hands and to try to force
the outcome in the form of a State...
The Zionist ideology was and is to force the aim of a State
irrespective of the cost in life and property to anyone
who stands in the way."

THAT encapsulates what I am against- the Dominating Nationalism
which has an agenda to rule the world, which resides in the evil hearts
of powerful men and a few women living on this planet and have
lived on this planet. Those of TPTB living now think that they are
on the threshold of the full realization of The (ancient) Plan.
It is not just Jews at the helm, but many "Goyim"
who have converted to Zionism are also the true enemies of humankind.

Israel, Judaism and Zionism
Talk By: Rabbi Ahron Cohen at Birmingham University, England
26th February '03



My friends, it is an honour to have the opportunity of talking
to you today.

I and my colleagues of Neturei Karta attend occasions such as
this because we feel that we have both a religious and humanitarian duty to
publicize our message as much as possible. So I hope and pray that with the
Creator's help my words and our discussions here today may be correct and
true in their content and conclusions.

As you have already been told, I am an orthodox Jew (that is a
Jew who endeavours to live his life completely in accordance with the Jewish
religion). I am involved in ecclesiastical duties within the Jewish
Community and am particularly involved in educating our youth and in helping
them to achieve healthy and correct attitudes. It is therefore of particular
interest to me to be able to talk to you, a student body, today.

I have been asked to talk to you about Judaism and Zionism. This
subject is of course tremendously relevant in the light of the current
situation in Palestine, where you have - let's face it - one side, the
Zionists (who are also Jews), wishing to impose a 'sectarian' State over the
heads of an indigenous population, the Palestinians. A confrontation which
has resulted in horrific bloodshed and brutality with no end in sight unless
there is a very radical change.

My qualification to talk on this subject is by virtue of my
being one of many orthodox Jews who absolutely sympathise with the
Palestinian cause, and we protest vehemently against the terrible wrongs
being perpetrated against the Palestinian People by the Zionist illegitimate
regime in Palestine.

The spearhead group among us who are involved actively in this
matter on a regular basis are called Neturei Karta, which can be loosely
translated as Guardians of the Faith. We are not a separate party or
organisation but basically a philosophy representative of a large section of
orthodox Jewry.

Let me firstly state quite categorically that Judaism and
Zionism are incompatible. They are diametrically opposed.

The question must surely arise in the minds of many of you here
today that there appears to be a paradox. After all everyone knows that
Zionists are Jews and that Zionism is for the benefit of Jews. The
Palestinians are the enemies of the Zionists. How come then that I, a Jew,
can sympathise with the Palestinian cause.

I would like to try to answer this question and to revert to the
subject of my talk - Judaism and Zionism - on two levels, religious belief
and humanitarianism. Bearing in mind that to be humanitarian is also a basic
religious requirement.

Firstly from a Jewish religious belief point of view. One has to
take a look at some aspects of the history of the Jewish people and at their
basic belief in the Al-mighty's control of our destiny and what the
Al-mighty wants of us. All as set out in our Religious teachings, our Toira,
and as taught to us through the generations by our great religious leaders.
Against this we also have to look at the history of Zionism, how it
developed, what are its aims.

Our religion is for us a total way of life. Showing us how to
live a life in the service of the Al-mighty. It affects every aspect of our
life from the cradle to the grave. We are taught that it was revealed to us
by Divine Revelation, as described in the Bible, some three and a half
thousand years ago, and that is when the Jewish People came in to being. All
of our religious requirements, practical and philosophical, are set out in
the Torah which comprises the Bible (the old testament) and a vast code of
Oral Teaching handed down to us through the generations.

As mentioned, our religion is a total way of life covering every
aspect of our life. One area of our religion is that subject to certain
conditions is that we will be given a land, the Holy Land, now known as
Palestine, in which to live and carry out various parts of our service of
the Al-mighty.

Now, before I go any further, I wish to point out something
which is very basic to understanding the difference between Judaism and
Zionism and that is that the orthodox Jewish concept of nationhood is very
different to the concept of nationhood held by most peoples. Most peoples
understand a nation to be a specific people living in a specific land. The
land is essential for the identity of the nation. They may or may not have a
religion, but the religion is immaterial to the national identity. The
orthodox Jewish concept of nationhood however, is a specific people with a
specific religion. It is the religion that establishes the national
identity. They may or may not have a land, the land is immaterial to the
Jewish national identity.

This is borne out by the fact that the Jewish nation has been
without a land for 2000 years, but as long as they retained their religion
they retained their identity.

Now I mentioned earlier that we were given a land but under
certain conditions. The conditions were basically that we had to maintain
the highest of moral, ethical and religious standards. The Jewish People did
have the land for approximately the first one thousand five hundred years of
their existence. However, regretfully, the conditions were not fulfilled to
the required degree and the Jews were exiled from their land. For the last
two thousand years or so the Jewish people have been in a state of exile
decreed by the A-lmighty because they did not maintain the standards
expected of them. This state of exile is the situation that exists right up
to the present day. It is a basic part of our belief to accept willingly the
Heavenly decree of exile and not to try and fight against it or to end it by
our own hands. To do so would constitute a rebellion against the wishes of
the A-lmighty.

In practical terms, although we have maintained our Jewish
identity by virtue of our attachment to our religion, never the less exile
for us means firstly that Jews must be loyal subjects of the countries in
which they live and not attempt to rule over the established indigenous
populations of those countries.

Secondly, that we may not attempt to set up a State of our own
in Palestine.
This would apply even if the land would be unoccupied and it
certainly applies when, as is the case, there is an existing indigenous
population. This prohibition is a basic part of our teaching and we are
forsworn not to contravene it and we are warned of the dire consequences of
doing so.

It follows, therefore, that Jews have no right to rule today in
Palestine.

Now let us consider the Zionist movement. This was founded
approximately 100 years ago mostly by secular people who were discarding
their religion but still retained what they considered as the stigma of
being Jews in exile. They considered that our state of exile was due to our
own subservient attitude - 'the Golus (exile) mentality' - and not by Divine
Decree. They wanted to throw off the constraints of exile and to try and
establish a new form of Jewish identity. Not religion based but land based.
It was based on a typical, emotion driven, secular nationalistic aim,
similar to that of most other nations. Their policy had as its centre pin
the aim of setting up a Jewish State in Palestine. But they were forging a
new kind of Jew. In fact not a Jew at all- a Zionist.

This Zionist movement was a complete abandonment of our
religious teachings and faith - in general - and in particular an
abandonment of our approach to our state of exile and our attitude to the
peoples among whom we live.

The practical outcome of Zionism in the form of the State known
as 'Israel' is completely alien to Judaism and the Jewish Faith. The very
name "Israel" which originally meant what are known as the Children of
Israel i.e. the Jewish People was usurped by the Zionists. For this reason
many orthodox Jews avoid referring to the Zionist State by the name 'Israel'
..

The ideology of Zionism is not to rely on divine providence but
to take the law into ones own hands and to try to force the outcome in the
form of a State. This is completely contrary to the approach to the matter
of exile which our Toira requires us to adopt, as handed down to us by our
great religious teachers.

I have spoken till now from the religious belief point of view.
But let us consider the humanitarian point of view (and to do so is also a
religious requirement as I mentioned earlier).The Zionist ideology was and
is to force the aim of a State irrespective of the cost in life and property
to anyone who stands in the way. The Palestinians stood in the way. We have
a fact that in order to achieve an ill conceived nationalistic ambition, a
shocking contravention of natural justice was committed by the Zionists in
setting up an illegitimate regime in Palestine completely against the wishes
of the established population, the Palestinians, which inevitably had to be
based on loss of life, killing and stealing.

Most Orthodox Jews accept the Neturei Karta view to the extent
that they do not agree in principle to the existence of the Zionist State
and would not 'shed a tear' if it came to an end. There are however a range
of opinions as to how to deal with the fact that for the time being the
Zionist State exists. These opinions range from positive cooperation to
pragmatic acceptance to total opposition in every way. The latter being the
Neturei Karta approach.

There was and is however, an additional Zionist phenomenon which
confuses the picture. That is the Religious Zionists. These are people who
claim to be faithful to the Jewish Religion but they have been influenced by
the Zionist secular nationalistic philosophy and have added a new dimension
to Judaism - Zionism, the aim of setting up now and expanding a Jewish state
in Palestine. This they try to fulfil with great fervour. (I call it
Judaism-plus) They claim that this is inherent in the Jewish religion. But
the fact is as explained earlier that this is absolutely contrary to the
teachings of our great religious teachers.

Furthermore, from a humanitarian point of view, their ideology
too was and is to force their aim irrespective of the cost in life and
property to anyone who stands in the way. The Palestinians are standing in
the way. This is all the more shocking as it is done in the name of
religion. Whereas in reality there is a totally contrary requirement of our
religion and that is to treat all peoples with compassion.

To sum up. According to the Torah and Jewish faith, the present
Palestinian > Arab claim to rule in Palestine is right and just. The Zionist
claim is wrong and criminal. Our attitude to Israel is that the whole
concept is flawed and illegitimate.

We have another problem and that is that the Zionists have made
themselves to appear as the representatives and spokespeople of all Jews
thus, with their actions, arousing animosity against the Jews. Those who
harbour this animosity are accused of anti-Semitism. However, what has to be
made abundantly clear is that Zionism is not Judaism. Zionists cannot speak
in the name of Jews. Zionists may have been born as Jews, but to be a Jew
also requires adherence to the Jewish belief and religion. So what becomes
abundantly clear is that opposition to Zionism and its crimes does not imply
hatred of Jews or 'anti-Semitism'. On the contrary Zionism itself and its
deeds are the biggest threat to Jews and Judaism.

The strife between Arab and Jew in Palestine only began when the
first Zionist pioneers came to Palestine with the express aim of forming a
State over the heads of the indigenous Arab population. That strife has
continued until this very day and has cost and continues to cost thousands
and thousands of lives. The oppression, abuse and murder in Palestine is a
tragedy not only for the Palestinians but for the Jewish people as well. And
is in fact part of the dire consequences of which we are warned if we
transgress our religious requirement not to rebel against our exile.

I wish to add that the connection between Muslims and Jews goes
right back into ancient history. Mostly the relationship was friendly and
mutually beneficial. Historically, the situation frequently was that when
Jews were being persecuted in Europe they found refuge in the various Muslim
countries. Our attitude to Muslims and Arabs can only be one of friendliness
and respect.

I would like to finish with the following words. We want to tell
the world, especially our Muslim neighbours, that there is no hatred or
animosity between Jew and Muslim. We wish to live together as friends and
neighbours as we have done mostly over hundreds even thousands of years in
all the Arab countries. It was only the advent of the Zionists and Zionism
which upset this age old relationship.

We consider the Palestinians as the people with the right to
govern in Palestine.

The Zionist State known as "Israel" is a regime that has no
right to exist. Its continuing existence is the underlying cause of the
strife in Palestine.
We pray for a solution to the terrible and tragic impasse that
exists. Hopefully based on results brought about by moral, political and
economic pressures imposed by the nations of the world.

We pray for an end to bloodshed and an end to the suffering of
all innocent people - Jew and non-Jew alike - worldwide.

We are waiting for the annulment of Zionism and the dismantling
of the Zionist regime, which will bring about an end to the suffering of the
Palestinian people. We would welcome the opportunity to dwell in peace in
the holy land under a rule which is entirely in accordance with the wishes
and aspirations of the Palestinian People.

May we soon merit the time when all mankind will be at peace
with each other.



http://www.nkusa.org/activities/speeches/bham022603.cfm




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Copyright 2003, Neturei Karta International







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