Re: Interesting thread on LymeNUT!!

I don't know anything about this...but it IS a jewelry sale. it may be
that some more expensive pieces are being sold, and those who
participate don't want to take such a gigantic loss as to donate all of
the proceeds to Dr. Jones. some jewelry can be quite valuable. I guess
I'm not sure by what they mean "profits". do they mean 'revenue', or do
they mean net profits after the individual has been compensated for the
piece in some form?

in any event, whoever is organizing this obviously wants to raise money
for Dr. Jones. otherwise, they would just have a sale and not donate
any of the profits at all to Dr. Jones.

How do we know the money is going to Dr. Jones? presumably, Dr. Jones
is aware of the sale and would alert people to any inconsistencies.

jewelry is a hot item these days, especially with a weak dollar and a
prospect of further weakening.

on another tangent, the poster bettyg is so annoying when she nags
people about separating their print. she did that to me repeatedly.
she's the only person there who ever really bitches about that ***.
I'm like, screw you! do I exist in order to entertain your fancies?
can't she buy one of those computer programs that translates print into
sound, like they use for blind people?

anybody who is so petty as to bitch about the print format probably
isn't going to get anything out of my posts anyway.


Sewer Rat wrote:
Read this and keep following it. It's one of those rare interesting
threads on LymeNUT. I fear that this poster "milkthistle3" risks
censorship too. Notice the typical responses of the LymeNUTS. I wonder
how long it will take before we have another "troll alert".

----------------------------

This is topic fund raiser on the Cape in forum General Support at
LymeNet Flash.


To visit this topic, use this URL:
http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=015687

*Posted by* milkthistle3 (Member # 9804) on 09 August, 2006 09:20 PM :

I am new here, but not new to LD. I live in the area of the Cape, and
have a vacation home there. I am and have been active for many years on
a low level, but read a lot and talk to many people. People talk and I
listen..although now I find myself in a position to speak up.
I was not surprised to learn of the jewelry sale being held for Dr J.
here on the Cape, later this month.
I was surprised actually by the fact that only 25% of the profits are
going to Dr J....
Isn't a fund raiser, esp one associated with a non-profit organization,
supposed to donate 100% of the profit to the cause?
It is also odd that so much public attention would be given to this
doctor who has saved many of our children. Wopuldn't we serve him better
right now, in this hotbed of Lyme debate, to just quietly donate to his
fund?

If anyone would prefer to do that, here is where to send the check...

c/o Jones Legal Fund
26 Fairlawn Dr
Wallingsford CT 06492

and I wonder since the LDA appears to be sponsoring this event, or at
least associated with it, if they would care to comment on where the
other 75% of the money is going, and are they coordinators of this event
ablt to show their books to the auditors?

A non profit fund raiser is serious business, especially if it appears
to be not quite on the up and up. This has been in the news more and
more lately, so it is of some concern to many of us in the backwoods of
the Cape and outlying areas.
Sorry to bring this matter to your attention, but I am sure you all want
to support Dr J in the best manner.
I would also be very wary at any group meeting, email group or any
gathering, to sign your name and address as a Lyme patient for any
reason. Sometimes this information goes to the wrong hands, and might,
beyond your knowledge, be used in ways you don't intend.

While giving to the dr J fund is needed and they are grateful, please be
careful how you do it, and be careful about about whom you give your
personal information. There are lions in sheep clothing, unfortunately,
in the least place you would expect to find them.

*Posted by* kay mass (Member # 206) on 10 August, 2006 09:22 AM :

I will do my best to share what I know about your concerns.

The profits that are at 25% are what the people that are donating are
offering. In other words a person selling jewelry at the fundraiser may
take in 100.00, they are offering 25% of the total as a donation.

The organizers of the fundraiser are NOT keeping any of the profits, the
people that are selling their wares at the fundraiser are keeping the
75%, this covers labor, inventory, and travel.

Dr. Jones welcomes anyone to use his name for referral of a patient or
supporting him in his hearings. He has given permission to use his name
publicly.

I am not sure that we are actually protecting our docs, anyway, by not
sharing their names publicly. Any medical board or insurance company
gunning for LLMDs only have to look for a doc using the diagnostic code
for Lyme, which they have to use.

I agree that giving out name and address is not a great idea, unless you
understand that that info you give can be used by whomever the
organizers may wish to share it with.

We have 8 fundraisers happening now. Check them out:
http://www.lymesite.com/LLMD_FUNDRAISER.htm

I hope this helps,
Kay

*Posted by* milkthistle3 (Member # 9804) on 10 August, 2006 02:31 PM :

Well it sounds like symatecs here then.
IF 75% of the profits are kept for expenses, than that is not profit,
that is expense. How can the expense be determined before sales are
made? Cost of gas, mileage, food, all of that can be determined before
hand, and should be included as expenses.
Profits then come after that figure, which is any sale of jewelry (or
whatever) that is completed. Then 100% of that money should go to the cause.
So, how far are the people driving? How much gas will they need, (I
imagine they could figure out how much they would need) and food etc for
the day, keep an inventory of what is sold, when their expenses are met,
then any amount after that can be donated on the spot and earmarked for
the defense fund.
My concern is if this is at all related to the LDA or any other
non-profit, it is not right for less than 100% of PROFITS to go to the
cause. I believe that non profits are just that, NON profits.
So perhaps the work before hand would determine the costs, what the
jewelers are donanting to be sold, and what the profit will be. Once the
costs are covered, the profit in its entirety wuold go to the fund...
it just has some people wondering who is getting the 75%, how much that
will be, who is handling the books, etc...
and if indeed the LDA or any non-profit is involved or on the
advertisement for the event, then indeed, all profits go to the intended.
Otherwise I believe you are putting yourself and the LDA at a risk.

*Posted by* Lymetoo (Member # 743) on 10 August, 2006 03:00 PM :


quote:Originally *Posted by* kay mass:


The profits that are at 25% are what the people that are donating
are offering. In other words a person selling jewelry at the fundraiser
may take in 100.00, they are offering 25% of the total as a donation.

The organizers of the fundraiser are NOT keeping any of the
profits, the people that are selling their wares at the fundraiser are
keeping the 75%, this covers labor, inventory, and travel.

Sounds OK to me. I do hope most of these people are voluntarily giving
more than the 25%.

*Posted by* bettyg (Member # 6147) on 10 August, 2006 03:37 PM :

Milk, we can NOT read long blocks of text.

Please hit the ENTER button often for short paragraphs and then leave
ONE BLANK LINE between each paragraph.

I'm sure this in the NEWBIES LINKS I sent you privately when you joined
us ... ok!

You bring up some interesting points on this subject .... Bettyg [Big Grin]

*Posted by* milkthistle3 (Member # 9804) on 10 August, 2006 06:31 PM :

sorry

betty

I was informed that this WAS a non profit fund

raiser...and that everything was donated, the

area, the marketing, the jewelrey, their time,

the advertising

*Posted by* kay mass (Member # 206) on 10 August, 2006 11:29 PM :

Dear ?,

My name is Kay Lyon, what is your name?

When someone is not willing to identify themselves they are usually up
to no good.

The people working on the Cape fundraiser are donating their time and
their money.

I appreciate their effort and time and ANY amount anyone is willing and
able to donate to Dr. Jones' fund.

Finding fault with someone's efforts is, well, dumb...

Why do you think you have any right to dictate what someone else is
going to donate?

Kay

[ 11. August 2006, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: kay mass ]

*Posted by* kay mass (Member # 206) on 11 August, 2006 10:34 AM :

BTW the first jewelry fundraiser raised 3 THOUSAND dollars for Dr.
Jones. THREE THOUSAND DOLLARS!

*Posted by* nan (Member # 63) on 11 August, 2006 11:51 AM :

Can't imagine anyone criticizing a fundraiser for Dr. Jones. Guess you
don't have a child who was literally SAVED by this dear man. How could
you possibly understand.

By the way.....this is NOT sponsored by the LDA as you suggested.

Hoping for a big turnout and an answer to my prayers that we will have
Dr. Jones treating our children for a long time! [Smile]

*Posted by* kay mass (Member # 206) on 11 August, 2006 01:03 PM :

Very good points Nan.

The LDA is not sponsoring the fundraiser. They can not sponsor any
fundraiser for helping a doc with defense funding. No nonprofit is
allowed to take part in any such activity.

People that are associated with the LDA are also helping with this
fundraiser, as are many who are NOT associated with the LDA.

Kay

*Posted by* milkthistle3 (Member # 9804) on 12 August, 2006 11:51 AM :

Kay, I am sorry that you feel dictated to, that is not my intention. If
you read my post again you will find that I am just stating facts and
posing questions and concerns. Sometimes facts can be hard to read
without reading something else into it or letting feelings color what
you are reading. That is human nature.

Nan, also I am sorry that you feel the event is being criticized, again
I am stating fact. No criticism has been leveled. Some suggestions have
been passed on from other members of the Lyme community, including
myself. I represent some others, so to speak.

If the LDA is connected to a fund raiser, and the LDA is a non-profit,
then all the profits should go to the cause. That is a statement of
logic and legalality. Not intended to fire emotions.

If you are angered by what the facts are, perhaps you should excuse
yourself from the fund raiser and let cooler heads prevail and take over
the event.

Or remove the non-profit organizations from the roster of promoters.
Anyone can put on an event and ask for money for any cause, but a
non-profit MUST donate all profits to the intended. Many have gotten
into trouble just over this issue. That would be a very negative outcome
for this event. Who in the LDA is accountable in the end, and who at
this event is accountable for monitoring this event financially?

No one is criticizing anyone, just questioning the legalities and asking
who is accountable for the money, how much comes in, and where it goes?
I believe those are very fair questions, and when a non-profit is
involved, should be public information.

How would anyone know how much money is taken in, where it goes, and how
much from donations is made, how much from sales, amount of total sales,
amount of profit, and amount from profit that covers expenses and then
what is left to go to Dr Jones?

I am not the adversary that you feel I am, I am again, raising
reasonable questions and stating facts.

Also it is a fact that the last jewelry sale did not raise the majority
of the $3,000 made. Most of that money raised came from donations that
people made while they were there. Private donations, not the sale of
any jewelry.

This is also an event that will attempt once again collection not only
of money, but of names and addresses. If you attend, why not make a
donation directly to the Jones fund, but don't sign any rosters, don't
leave your name and address, nor give out any diagnoses you might have?
Nor state who your doctor is.

Also, it is also public knowledge that one need not make any appointment
with any one who solicits themselves as a professional who can give a
referral to an LLMD through a counselling appointment. This information
is generally free and well known in the Lyme community, and any attempt
of any professional to prey upon the fear and neediness of an individual
who is sick should make a strict inventory of themselves and their
morals. Such a person may be involved in the organizing of this event,
and if one attends and gives contact information, that information is
available for solicitation and misuse.

I have been in the position more than once of having been solicited in
just such a manner. It is quite upsetting and vulgar, and highly immoral.

Also, it should be public that the main jeweler attending is Shiela
Statlander's sister, who along with the other jewelers, may be making
money as profit and not striclty for donation to dr Jones' fund. Shiela
is, as I am told the main organizer of the group.

Now if her idea arose from the fact that a family member creates
jewelry, and that is a money maker, and that could be the basis for a
fund raiser with 100% of profit going to the fund, that is great...use
the abilities and talents available to raise money.

However, if ALL of the profits are not going to the fund, then, well,
that is just promoting a family member along with a few other crafts
people who stand to make a profit with very little up front costs.

Normally a booth at a craft show costs anywhere from $50-125 and higher,
depending. So these crafters stand to make profit beyond what they
normally would make. The site for the sale if free, donated. That is the
biggest up-front cost, eliminated.

How honorable is is then to use that donation to acquire profits for the
crafters in attendance?


Again, the definition of a fund raiser for a non-profit BY LAW donates
100% of ALL profits to the cause. In this case, Dr. Jones legal fund.

Now if your emotions are getting in the way of you reading this
information as facts and disabling your ability to work within the
guidelines set down by the definition of non-profit status, might I
suggest you that you step back and let cooler heads prevail.

No one is saying this is a bad idea, but people are concerned that the
profits are not going in their entirety to the legal fund.

IF you want to stay legal, keep the LDA protected and follow stand
proceedures. Many feel that it would be helpful to keep track of all
money made, % covering costs, keep reciepts of costs (gas etc..) and
after all costs are paid, the % of the balance that goes to the fund.

I hope I have made this very clear, and I hope that your feelings can be
put aside, as anyone who posts on this board who puts the facts out if
not in aggreement with the powers that be are generally not met with a
"oh thanks, that might be useful information."

Instead, they are usually met with some sort of bait and hook tactic to
engage in a long argument, inciting other posters to add to the fire,
and eventuall the original poster, while well behaved and well
intentioned, gets banned as a troll.

(By the way, I am not under a bridge awaiting poor children whom I
intend to eat...)

Now, how fair is that I ask? Not at all fair, but unfortuneatly, very
common here. I hope that in this case it does not happen. This is a
serious matter at every level.

I sincerely hope that this event can be turned around to be an up and up
fundraiser for Jones, via the LDA, and that his name not be out there
for the tons of tourists, and in fact mainly doctors who are known to
vacation on the Cape in the traditional time of August..Have you
considered that aspect? It is a fact. Many doctors traditionally
vacation in August, world wide...

I am in fact while applauding your efforts to raise money for Dr Jones,
also concerned that all the money raised will not get to him, and
further that drawing attention to his legal problems might work against him.

Cape Cod is near center for dissention and this is actually bad
publicity any way you look at it for Dr Jones. He could be better served
if the hearing and legal fund information is kept quiet.

There are many public fund raisers, national fund raisers, heavily
advertised, but none for the defense fund of a particular doctor that I
can remember. This point I think is sincerely damaging and causing a few
people some real concerns.

Is this really the best thing to do? Its one thing to raise money in his
name within the community, but another to put his name out in public,
along with his trial.

Especially in light of recent hearings for an LLMD that did NOT go well.
Several LLMDs have felt the heat lately, and one very publically. The
media coverage hurt that particular LLMD very badly.

So, I hope you can understand that my heart and concerns are in the
right place, and that my statements here reflect the concerns of many
others who do not frequent this board, but who do work hard for the
betterment of all our situatins.

Perhaps Dr Jones could be better served if the benefit is for the LDA,
no names mentioned, but the money raised then given by the LDA to the Dr
Jones Fund.

I hope there is a big turnout, and I hope that you can make some
critical changes in your wording, be protective, educate people that
attend, and keep a good account of the money that comes in, and what %
goes to Dr Jones.

I hope that nothing that happens in fact turns out to be detrimental to
dr Jones at this time particularly.

In fact, his legal fund is fine, any funds that are sent now are
earmarked for FUTURE hearings. Ellen L has posted to that effect. We are
hoping that the final hearings will serve to end the public trial this
man is enduring.

In fact, I think it would be great to have Pat make it public knowledge,
as this is an LDA sponsored event in general and make the bold and right
decision to take dr Jones name off of all publicity.

Kay, while you may choose to identify yourself, that is your choice. I
choose not to. I have witnessed too many members pulverized, slandered,
and beaten with words when merely speaking up about their lives,
experiences, and telling the truth.

This can take a huge emotional toll on people especially people who are
sick and vulnerable themselves. Since I feel this would be the case, I
choose not to identify myself. Let it rest that my intention has always
been to serve those struggling with this disease, not to hinder them in
any way.

Just let it stand that I am a long time member of the Lyme community and
while not affiliated with any group, am in touch with quite a few people
who are, and who have privy to much information. In this case, I thought
it very important to speak up.

If the LDA is connected, and the accounting is not on the up and up, and
100% of profits do NOT go to the Fund, then it is not within the bounds
of legality.

So protect yourselves and stick to those guidelines of non-profit fund
raisers.

As for those who attend, again, it is not always in your best interest
to give out your names, addresses etc on any roster that may be there.

Much goes on behind the scenes that most of you and most of the doctors
do not know.

Good luck, hope you make tons of money for dr Jones, and thanks to all
the participants who donate 100% of their profits to the legal fund.

I know this is a long post and I hope I have left adequate space to make
it easy to read. I apologize for the longevity of my expressions here today.

*Posted by* milkthistle3 (Member # 9804) on 12 August, 2006 12:05 PM :

I missed a few points. Several people who have helped actively organize
this event are LDA leaders. Does that not then on some level involve the
LDA?
In the by-laws, are you allowed to organize events without the consent
of the LDA?
Also, I do have children whom Dr Jones has helped, and I honor him. I
also donated privately several times to the defense fund, directly.

Though he may give his permission to use his name, through his
generosity of heart, it still may not be the best decision to state that
he is threatened with losing his license, and that in fact this money if
for his defense.

This particular point brings up concerns thta are very dangerous for all
of us, him, his future, the future of our children and all LLMDs.

Kay, to state than anyone who choosed to be anonymous should be
discussed with "Big Throat" and the two famous reporters who broke that
scandel..Watergate. Remember?

That person I believe, was not dumb.

Nan, to make such a broad generaliztion that this poster would not
understand and evidently has no first hand experience is a punch in the
gut. We lost several children in utuero before we knew my wife has Lyme.
Our last, the seventh to be concieved, made it into the world, but has
congenital Lyme.

So perhaps you both might want to think before making such broad
illogical and hurtful statements.

*Posted by* MagicAcorn (Member # 8786) on 12 August, 2006 01:27 PM :

Milkthistle-

Maybe you wouldn't feel quite so attacked if you didn't come on here
with both gloves on looking for an opponent?

Unless you can prove any legality issues I'd suggest you take a break
from here and go stir pots somewhere else for awhile.

*Posted by* kay mass (Member # 206) on 12 August, 2006 03:34 PM :

ONE, NUMBER 1, the MOST IMPORTANT fact you keep overlooking: The LDA is
NOT sponsoring this fundraiser.

2. Because the LDA is in NO way sponsoring or involved in this
fundraiser all the "important" questions you keep asking are irrelevant.

3. I have certainly taken my share of "hits" from others in Lymeland,
but staying anonymous only makes those that slam people more powerful,
not less.

4. You say you remain anonymous because you are afraid of being slammed
and then you have turned right around and done the slamming. The things
you have written are not kind, they are accusatory, damaging, hurtful
and totally unnecessary. (IMO)When we have identified ourselves we are
more likely to think before we post and so will say fewer mean spirited
things. We all need to take responsibility for our own words and
actions. Staying anonymous releases you from the responsibility of yours.

5. ANY amount anyone is willing to donate is a GREAT and GENEROUS thing,
finding fault on public boards about their efforts will only hurt the
community at large and Dr. Jones in particular.

6. Dr. Jones' lawyer has agreed that the publicity for the fundraisers,
including the jewelry sale, will not harm Dr. Jones' hearing results. I
am certain he is the best judge of what is or is not harmful for Dr. Jones.

7. I don't feel dictated to.

8. I do not feel emotional or "hot headed"

9. I agreed earlier and will agree again, if you do not want to have
your contact info shared with other groups you ought not sign a guest
book without asking someone you trust what will happen to the info you
are providing.

Kay

*Posted by* milkthistle3 (Member # 9804) on 12 August, 2006 05:44 PM :

I missed a few points. Several people who have helped actively organize
this event are LDA leaders. Does that not then on some level involve the
LDA?
In the by-laws, are you allowed to organize events without the consent
of the LDA?
Also, I do have children whom Dr Jones has helped, and I honor him. I
also donated privately several times to the defense fund, directly.

Though he may give his permission to use his name, through his
generosity of heart, it still may not be the best decision to state that
he is threatened with losing his license, and that in fact this money if
for his defense.

This particular point brings up concerns thta are very dangerous for all
of us, him, his future, the future of our children and all LLMDs.

Kay, to state than anyone who choosed to be anonymous should be
discussed with "Big Throat" and the two famous reporters who broke that
scandel..Watergate. Remember?

That person I believe, was not dumb.

Nan, to make such a broad generaliztion that this poster would not
understand and evidently has no first hand experience is a punch in the
gut. We lost several children in utuero before we knew my wife has Lyme.
Our last, the seventh to be concieved, made it into the world, but has
congenital Lyme.

So perhaps you both might want to think before making such broad
illogical and hurtful statements.

*Posted by* milkthistle3 (Member # 9804) on 12 August, 2006 06:30 PM :

I do not feel attacked, not at all. But thanks for checking on me and
offering an alternative.

Lymenet has collectively done the worst to some of the best advocates
out there. They are all in the esteemed position of being banned. None
were trouble makers, unless you labeled them so. None were
agitators,unless you labeled them so. None were ousted from this board,
until the real leadership here ousted them, and I speak of PS.

Again, you are letting hot headedness and acusatory inclinations get in
the way of thinking of what is best for the llmd involved, our kids, and
LD community as an "entity" which probably is a misnomer. It has never
been, and probably never will be, cohesive.

So, some of you will continue blindly following leadership that makes
itself very available and promotes itself as a monarchy to us, to our
doctors, to ILADS members, and throws its weight around behind the
scenes to dictate our future, to lay the groundwork for failure,
inevidibly leaving us all the worse for it. The Big Queen as it were.

Others may begin to read more, ask more questions, step back and look at
the larger picture that has presented itself through the years of
"representation" of our now biggest organization, and think for
yourselves...is what you are seeing benificial in any way? Has
legislation passed at the helm of the lda ship actually helped us?
Somewhere, in each bit of legislation, is a loophole, letting the
insurance companies decide and dictate our lenght of treatment and
ultimately denying our LLMDs the right to treat us and us the right to
secure treatment.

So while some of you think people like me are horrid, we are not. We are
looking at history, so we don't repeat it. Lets not do it now.

The CT rally did NOT serve Dr Jones at all. It served the sponsor. It
divided Lymies with limited money, energy and abitliy to travel ...go to
the hearing or go to the rally???
Finally they were "allowed" to attend a public hearing, given
permission, which was always there.

You must educate yourself now about how government works, what your
rights as a citizen are, and take control. You are not under a monarchy
really, you are just led to believe that's the best thing out there.

Again, there are hearings set and there are rally's set, all unfortunate
timing for doctor Jones. He needs a good showing in the courtroom, I
doubt he needs publicity of a rally...why make it so public that he is
on trial? I fail to see the logic at all in that, nor the good intent.
Courtroom support, yes. Financial support, yes. I would be very wary of
any fund raiser for any doctor who's license was at stake. We know the
reason, but we are a very small part of the world.

News, on the other hand, can be very large. So think about what may be
newsworthy, and think about what would be preferrable to have on the
news...a jammed courtroom in favor of a benevolent doctor or a loud
rally screaming for his innocence...brought on by the LDA.

Who is at the helm of the ship?

Who is planning these events?

Who has a hand in the jewelry sale? Who is pushing for it? The LDA is
involved at some level, that is a fact. If the members of the LDA are
involved without PS's permission, they are in discord with the by-laws.
If they do have her permission, then it is read as LDA involvement. See,
it gets sticky, doesn't it. And you want to clobber people like me for
pointing this out to you. This is a service being done for you, not a
clout on the head. Can you not see past your own noses?

Though you may believe yourselves to be doing God's work...perhaps you
are not. Perhaps you are serving a different boss, who isn't to be
trusted, and who will probably ban me soon and erase all of this posting.

But enough people will have read it to know, there are enough of us who
are not distracted by the smoke screen, and enough who will eventually
find their way to some real legislation that isn't a patch but a needed
respite.

Once again, wolves do harbor themselves in sheeps clothing. But I am not
the wolf. I am the chirp. You are working with the wolf.

*Posted by* nan (Member # 63) on 12 August, 2006 07:21 PM :

You are digging yourself deeper in the hole, JC.

Back off.

*Posted by* Mo (Member # 2863) on 12 August, 2006 08:01 PM :

I find the individuals who use Jones' defence fundraising efforts (and
other events) as an opportunity to attack other Lyme activists - those
individuals who revel in splitting the community - for what reason I do
not know -

I find these individuals actions most egregious and detrimental I can
imagine. Pure malice.

Please stop wasting the time of those working to raise money for Jones
with these frivolous criticisms.

I am responding to this thread because these kinds of actions serve no
good, harm the community, harm Jones, and ultimately
HARM OUR KIDS.

Mo

*Posted by* milkthistle3 (Member # 9804) on 12 August, 2006 08:51 PM :

I do not know who JC is unless you are referring to the second part of
the Holy Trinity, but you are sounding very threated... WHY??

Why would you want someone who may be offering you needed information,
who is stating facts, to be quiet?

I would listen intently. I would ask more questions.

I do not understand that.

What is really bothering you?

Is it someone stating facts, asking questions, or is it something more
inside yourself that is perhaps threatened by the truth? Some squiggling
inkling of perhaps...just perhaps...what if this is true..

Yes, what if this is true...???


I think that might be the case. To think that our "leadership" is not
all its cracked up to be is indeed mind blowing, but it could be true.
If it were true, where are we then?

Do we all blindly follow our President? Do we all believe what comes out
of his mouth? NO.

Are we allowed to state that? YES.

If our leadership is behind some less than sweet smelling deals...than
we have no good leadership.
If that is the case...what do we really have?

We have to make a different choice, and it needs to be based in reality,
not what we wish were true.

I along with all of you wish it were true, but I can't believe what goes
against logic, history and fact.

We are without someone to depend on-- that we thought we could. We have
all been duped.

We are then needing to be able to make some choices, which should be
educated choices.

I thought that is what this board is for, sharing and dispersing
information....but now I see it is only one type of information. That
which serves the Monarchy. Uh oh...OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!!!

I find it appalling and childish that these responses appear on a
network that is to serve people with Lyme disease, and serve them in
every area, including leadership.

Un-American, if you will.

Quit acting like two year olds...You are not asking the right questions,
you are not askig intelligent questions, you are not asking any
questions at all really, other than would I shut up? (and not too kindly
put either.) Rather threatening...

why is that? If I am wrong, what is the real harm? Blow it off. Don't
read it.
If I am right, get angry defensive shoot from the hip, aim low they're
riding ponies...deny deny deny.

Usually such enthusiastic denial is denial of the truth. (read Shakespeare.)

Think about the history of this disease, think about the history of our
leadership, our groups, what parts they played, what legislation they
pushed through...what we now have (nothing basically, beyond a skeleton
crew of LLMDs and a lot of fear that we will lose them), and how, while
seeming a good thing, the present leadership hinders us, its a quagmire.

And think how publicity in MA now, and recruitment of another LDA group
in MA might serve to divide and conquer? MA will be next in line for
legislation, and if the head knows not what the tail does, who is
wagging the dog?

And you need not shoot the messenger.
Its bad form.

I am not here to be incindiary. Though I am not totally surprised at the
responses...to think you are joining in, following directions, doing the
right and just thing, and then to hear that perhaps you are mistaken,
through no fault of your own?

Open your minds, look at the facts, get past your fears. I did not make
these things up. LOOK AT THE RECORDS and continue to do so. Keep
yourself informed. Bad legislation is actually worse than no legislation.

And all these seemingly unrelated well intended fund raisers, rallys,
press releases, are timed just right, and little has served dr Jones but
the donations made outright to his fund and the presence of people in
the court room. Which was hindered by the present leadership, who just
happens to have hired a great PR person. With DONATIONS mady by all of us.

WHY? Whom is she serving? Who is Lorriane Johnson? In what state does
she hold a legal license to practice? She is from HOLLYWOOD and was an
ENTERTAONMENT LAWYER but she is being paid big bucks...by the LDA...FOR
WHAT???

THOSE ARE THE TYPES OF QUESTIONS YOU SHOULD BE ASKING, AND DON'T STOP
UNTIL YOU GET THE ANSWERS.

*Posted by* kay mass (Member # 206) on 12 August, 2006 10:11 PM :

This is just plain sad.
You don't trust Pat so you bash everyone raising money for Dr. Jones'
defense fund and sabotage the fundraising.
How can you be so blind? You accuse others of being blind? You are the
one with your eyes closed. I do not follow Pat, I am independent, lots
of us fundraising for the Good Doc are.
Do you suppose I am doing the work to raise money for Dr. J. because I
am trying to hurt him? Do you think I am raising these funds for the
LDA? You are sacrificing his fundraising to make your point, maybe
because you are hurt. I don't know why. I can't imagine anyone thinking
this is a just and good thing to do.

What you are doing here IS hurting him and hurting his kids too.

These are the current fundraisers:
http://www.lymesite.com/LLMD_FUNDRAISER.htm
I have spent loads of time and some money on the eBay and note card
fundraisers. Loads of time. Granted, I have raised very little money but
it is the best I can do. Can you say the same? Are you doing the best
you can do? If this is the best you've got, that is really, really sad.
The worst of this is I probably know exactly who you are. I have heard
these statements from you. You make some good points, but boy have you
messed up with your delivery.

You have hurt me and most importantly you have hurt Dr. J. and all the
kids that need him. You have taken money right out of his pocket. If he
doesn't have enough funds to defend himself you are part of the reason
he didn't.
Kay Lyon

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