Finally someone makes a modicum of sense on lymenut re herxes YAY kman543210! and other good info suprise suprise shock of the day

You have to scroll down here to the kman543210 post but here is some
accurate medical information. My prediction: kman won't last long on
lymenut.

Kman is right--there are other infections (the ones he lists) in which
herxheimer reactions have been documented.

The one thing kman omitted is a description of what the j-h reaction
is in all those diseases and Lyme. A short lived phenomenon seen early
in treatment which can be quite severe. NOT an ongoing weeks or months
or years long thing to which every symptom fluctuation or drug side
effect (most of these people are on multiple drugs adequate to kill
most living things on this planet).

And kman is actually responding to a question about doxy herxes.
Better yet--since doxy is the least likely drug (other than the other
cycline drugs) to cause a herx since its primary mode of action is
bacteriostatic NOT bacteriacidal.


http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=063265#000000

Author Topic: Would someone NOT herx on Doxy if neg for Bb?
cjnelson
Frequent Contributor
Member # 12928

posted 09 February, 2008 03:49 PM
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Just curious...if I was negative for Bb would I still herx on Doxy? or
anything for that matter?

--------------------
Seeking renewed health & vitality.
---------------------------------
Do not take anything I say as medical advice - I am NOT a dr!

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Posts: 475 | From: TN | Registered: Aug 2007 | IP: Logged

adamm
Frequent Contributor
Member # 11910

posted 09 February, 2008 04:54 PM
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Hokay, then. I've always heard that herxes are not spirochete

specific, and can happen when your treating pretty much any

systemic infection.

Certainly a lot of people here claim to get them from

bart and babs tx-ment...

[ 09. February 2008, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: adamm ]

--------------------
Got Bb/Bart: 5/07

Doxy 200 mg/day for 1 month after bite

Doxy 400/ rifampin 600 / Cefdinir 600 mg taken for 1 month - begun
11/07

As of 1/22-- 1 g biaxin, 800 mg/ Cat's Claw/day

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cjnelson
Frequent Contributor
Member # 12928

posted 09 February, 2008 06:00 PM
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Thats not the question....

If someone was never exposed to Bb would they herx or could they herx
on abx???? Or is herxing on the abx that we take specific to
spirochete type bacterias?

I know we can herx from yeast die off, but specific to abx - is it
only to spirochetes???

--------------------
Seeking renewed health & vitality.
---------------------------------
Do not take anything I say as medical advice - I am NOT a dr!

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Posts: 475 | From: TN | Registered: Aug 2007 | IP: Logged

onthemend
Frequent Contributor
Member # 13454

posted 09 February, 2008 06:49 PM
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Hey CJ, I got so sick on abx for a couple of months after beginning
doxy treatment for LD. I'm no spring chicken (!) & have taken abx
throughout my life for various conditions, but never experienced any
reaction whatsoever(other than getting well!!) before.

Sorry, not a medical answer, just an anecdotal one - I never had any
reaction to abx prior to Lyme dx, and after Lyme dx & taking doxy, I
was much worse for a few months (which I assume was a 'herx'). Then,
better, better, better.

I hope you improve soon. Doxy started really getting to me about 1
month ago and I switched to Doryx. I do find it much easier to
tolerate in the GI area - but doesn't affect 'herxes' per se.

otm
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Posts: 156 | From: east coast | Registered: Oct 2007 | IP: Logged

Geneal
Frequent Contributor
Member # 10375

posted 09 February, 2008 08:26 PM
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Remember....not everybody has a herx.

My husband doesn't for a couple of weeks after he's started a new med.

Lucky me. Usually between day two and five.....

Also the dose is important. 200mg may not cause a herx reaction.

Or......maybe there are other TBD's without the Lyme.

I hope I helped.

Hugs,

Geneal
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Posts: 2921 | From: Louisiana | Registered: Oct 2006 | IP: Logged

cjnelson
Frequent Contributor
Member # 12928

posted 09 February, 2008 10:59 PM
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I test positive was only wondering if "normal" people did herx on abx.

May have been a useless thread but was really wondering about this,
thats all! Thanks for the responses!

--------------------
Seeking renewed health & vitality.
---------------------------------
Do not take anything I say as medical advice - I am NOT a dr!

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Posts: 475 | From: TN | Registered: Aug 2007 | IP: Logged

Michelle M
Frequent Contributor
Member # 7200

posted 10 February, 2008 02:20 PM
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CJ, I don't think "normal" people herx on antibiotics.

Before lyme, I on many occasions took 2- to 3-week courses of abx for
bronchitis or other reasons I can't recall now. I NEVER had any
reaction to them other than to get better from whatever condition I
was treating. I think this is true for most people, unless they're
allergic/intolerant of that particular antibiotic.

:-)

Michelle
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lymebytes
Frequent Contributor
Member # 11830

posted 10 February, 2008 09:32 PM
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I have taken abx for all different reasons throughout my life and
always by day 3-4 I was well and felt great.

I never EVER knew there was any such thing as "hurting or symptoms
increase to kill a bacteria", I would have never dreamed it.

Before I knew I had LD I insisted a doctor give me abx, I was
convinced I had an infection. I was sure by day 3-4 I'd be
well...NOPE..by day 3 I was in the worst shape ever and could not for
the life me understand why antibiotics would increase or aggrivate my
symptoms.

Not just spirochete bacteria cause herxing, Bart, babs & Ehrlichia are
not spirochete and yet we herx to kill them.

One person told me they had no idea they had Lyme until they "herxed"
on antibiotics. I wonder how many people who don't know they have Lyme
think they are experiencing side effects and really they have Lyme.

--------------------
If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result
of a hundred battles. - Sun Tzu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Read my LD story & others: http://tinyurl.com/29f9uc

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Posts: 692 | From: N. California | Registered: May 2007 | IP:
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kman543210
Flash Member
Member # 14009

posted 11 February, 2008 12:41 AM
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To answer the originally question, no you cannot have a Jarisch-
Herxheimer reaction if you are a healthy person no matter how many
antibiotics you take. YES, other infections besides Lyme can cause
this when treated with antibiotics such as syphilis, tick-borne
relapsing fever, brucellosis, typhoid fever, trichinellosis, and Q
fever.

Just my personal opinion, but I think people overuse the term herx
when they start to feel worse on treatment. You can get worse from
herxing, but you can also feel worse just from a flare-up of symptoms
that coincides with treatment, side effects from the antibiotics, or
allergy or intollerance as well. Many times it may be a combination of
the above, so it can be difficult to know for sure.

For example, if you had no infection and took Flagyl, you would most
likely feel the many possible side effects from this medication such
as weakness, abdominal pain, peripheral neuropathy, numbness,... These
are side effects and not caused by toxins from the die off.

From personal experience, I have had sinus infections, strep throat,
and many unknown bacterial infections while I was on chemotherapy, and
I always felt better with the antibiotics from those rather than
worse. So I did not experience any herx from those particular
infections with treatment.
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JasonK
Frequent Contributor
Member # 14071

posted 11 February, 2008 08:39 AM
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I agree healthy people don't herx. Hence why when LLMD's provide a
clinical diagnoses amongst others things they also like to know if
taking antibiotics has caused any increased symptoms or pain.
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