Re: Saturated Fat

From: john (john_at_yahoo.com)
Date: 06/26/04 

Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 12:31:57 -0700

Wasn't the average mortality rate skewed because it factored in a very
high infant mortality? {To use a very simplified example, if an
infant dies at 1 year and an adult dies at 75 years, the the average
mortality rate is 38. My great-grandmother had 18 children; 6 died in
childbirth or under the age of one year, but my great grandparents
lived to their late 80s.}

On 25 Jun 2004 17:46:37 -0700, rangerhasten@yahoo.com (Wolfbrother)
wrote:

>"Mirek Fidler" <cxl@volny.cz> wrote in message news:<2k322dF17g9ccU1@uni-berlin.de>...
>> "Robert Ruddy" <nospam@spam.com> píse v diskusním príspevku
>> news:cliod0hr0p0v595v38bd02k4iho5kmjk53@4ax.com...
>> > On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 15:13:05 -0700, "Chad C." <johnkeynesX@Xemail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > >Where is well-done research showing that saturated fat per se is
>> unhealthy?
>> > >I'd really like to see it to believe it, it's such conventional
>> wisdom I
>> > >know but that's not enough for me. Any theories as to why saturated
>> fat
>> > >might be unhealthy as well?
>> > >
>> > >Thanks folks,
>> > >
>> > >-Chad
>> > >
>> >
>> > I think the best diet advice is to look at populations that are noted
>> > for their longevity and follow their model.
>>
>> Well, but you have to choose very wisely to prove anything :)
>>
>> You could end with indians eating low-fat vegetarian diet and having
>> high incidence of coronary diseasy and spanish eating more saturated fat
>> while lowering their numbers...
>>
>> > Having said that, however,
>> > it is interesting to see that not 100 years ago people cooked with
>> > lard, drink full fat milk, used cream in their coffee, ate bacon and
>> > eggs, etc and heart disease wasn't anywhere near as common as it is
>>
>> Nice theory, but obvious answer to this is that people died much sooner
>> because of other diseases, so that heart disease did not have time to
>> develop....
>>
>> Mirek
>
> Actualy your "obvious answer" is totaly wrong. People did not
>have any shorter life span than we do now. The so called "average
>life span" calculations are extremely missleading and you are dooped
>if you believe the distortion that a so called "longer life span" of
>todays people is the reason for heart disease and other degenerative
>diseases or as they are sometimes WRONGLY called "diseases of aging"
>The fact is people DID live to old ages and there was very little
>heart disease, diabetes or many of the other degenerative conditions
>that are rampant today. Not only that but they are striking younger
>and younger people than ever including teenagers and young children.
>100+ years ago before the human diet was changed so drasticly
>americans ate a much healthyer diet full of saturated fat and
>cholesterol from animal sources and lacking modern fake foods like
>trans fat, polyunsaturated vegetable oils, refined flower, and sugar.
>These are the major causes of modern degenerative conditions like
>heart disease and diabetes. Most people simply do not understand the
>magnitude of the change in the human diet that started around 100
>years ago.
>
>Good example:
>
>In 1956, an American Heart Association (AHA) fund-raiser aired on all
>three major networks. The MC interviewed, among others, Irving Page
>and Jeremiah Stamler of the AHA, and researcher Ancel Keys. Panelists
>presented the lipid hypothesis as the cause of the heart disease
>epidemic and launched the Prudent Diet, one in which corn oil,
>margarine, chicken and cold cereal replaced butter, lard, beef and
>eggs. But the television campaign was not an unqualified success
>because one of the panelists, Dr. Dudley White, disputed his
>colleagues at the AHA. Dr. White noted that heart disease in the form
>of myocardial infarction was nonexistent in 1900 when egg consumption
>was three times what it was in 1956 and when corn oil was unavailable.
>When pressed to support the Prudent Diet, Dr. White replied: "See
>here, I began my practice as a cardiologist in 1921 and I never saw an
>MI patent until 1928. Back in the MI free days before 1920, the fats
>were butter and lard and I think that we would all benefit from the
>kind of diet that we had at a time when no one had ever heard the word
>corn oil."
>
>Notice that the Prudent Diet seems perfectly designed to maximise
>profits of the food industry, removing such low profit traditional,
>healthy foods from animal sources and replacing them with high profit
>easily produced fake processed foods. All this began around 100 years
>ago and within one generation of these MAJOR changes in the american
>diet severe health effects began to apear in the public. this trend
>can be seen in every modernized country as it replaced its traditional
>diet with modern "prudent diet" style eating habits. Within about 20
>years (one generation) degenerative conditions such as heart disease
>wich were once rare began to become widespread. This is really not
>some kind of secret. This isnt rocket science. Its all right there
>for anyone to see and understand. THIS is the "obvious answer" not
>some fabricated excuse to shift the blame like "diseases of aging" do
>to "longer life spans" That is a joke and anyone who cares to open
>their eyes can see the truth.
>
> Just for fun why dont you look up some famous or well known
>people who lived 100 200 or even 300 years ago and see how long they
>lived. For example take the first 15 presidents who lived in the
>1700-1800s. I do not think even one of them lived less than 60 years
>old who died of natural causes and several lived into the 80s and even
>90s back in the late 1700!! Look up the ages of famous classical
>music or opera composers. Many of them lived several hundred years
>ago and lived to similar ages. Really the only exeptions are
>accidental deaths or from infections or infectious diseases. Gengis
>Khan who lived around 800 years ago! was fighting wars in his 60s
>untill he died from falling off his horse around the age of 65. This
>not only shows longevity but superb health well into old age. How
>many 65 year olds do you know today that could be leading armies into
>battle on horseback? They would have leave their rest homes and wheel
>chairs first. These are just a few examples. People die from heart
>disease now in their 30s and 40s so do not tell me its from old age.
>Get some real information and discern answers for YOURSELF. Do not
>just spout out apologist mainstream drivel that is simply designed to
>make excuses for their own failure.

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