Re: Put your babies on statins
From: Robert (Robert_at_hotmail.com)
Date: 08/02/04
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Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 17:05:48 -0700
"Herman Rubin" <hrubin@odds.stat.purdue.edu> wrote in message
news:cejm0f$63p8@odds.stat.purdue.edu...
> In article <10gom53ob994511@corp.supernews.com>,
> Robert <Robert@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >"Herman Rubin" <hrubin@odds.stat.purdue.edu> wrote in message
> >news:cehd6v$268o@odds.stat.purdue.edu...
> >> In article <10gg4at6assd6c9@corp.supernews.com>,
> >> Robert <Robert@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >"Herman Rubin" <hrubin@odds.stat.purdue.edu> wrote in message
> >> >news:ce8udv$3gjg@odds.stat.purdue.edu...
> >> >> In article <lzHNc.3492$3L7.1370@newssvr32.news.prodigy.com>,
> >> >> Bill <xxx@yy.zz> wrote:
>
> >> >> >"Zee" <zwalanga@yahoo.com> wrote in message > And: Some industry
> >studies
> >> >say
>
> ........................
>
>
> >> I have addressed this issue; good fraud legislation willo
> >> take care of this point.
>
> >> However, this will not solve the problem. We can consider,
> >> for example, dietary sodium. I doUbt that any companies are
> >> getting rich on low-sodium foods. The meta-analyses are in
> >> sharp disagreement. However, what I gather from the review
> >> paper in _Science_, the journal of the American Association
> >> for the Advancement of Science, is that some people are
> >> sensitive to sodium, and the other factors may be far more
> >> important for the rest. Papers without "significant" results
> >> are rarely published.
>
> >Some diabetics are more sensitive to sodium as far as hypertension.
>
> This is true for both diabetics and non-diabetics.
>
> >Significant results not published? How can you judge something that is
not
> >published? There are various reasons why something isn't published.
Private
> >companies do private company research not intended for publication.
> >University research is all about publishing. Editors must approve
> >"significant" articles after reviewing.
>
> One of the aspects of the statistical religion, highly relied
> upon by editors, is the use of "statistical significance".
> This means how unlikely the result would be if there was no
> effect due to the treatment; to what extent the treatment has
> an effect CANNOT be ascertained from this figure. This also
> is much of what meta-analysis works on.
>
> To give you an idea of how misleading "significance" can be,
> there was an article on the carcinogenicity of the compound
> giving the flavor to broiled fish. This was fed to rats at
> high doses. About half of the 25 (IIRC) male rats fed the
> compund developed various cancers, while only one control rat
> out of 25 did. This was considered a moderate effect because
> the p-value was something like .03. If there were only 5
> rats, it is unlikely that it would be reported, and if there
> were 500, it is likely that it would be highly significant
> and be considered a major effect.
Study size is everything so most people consult with statisticians as to the
appropriate size. Most of these are mini-studies for various reasons that
are sometimes followed up or not with larger ones. There is a bias at work
as to which ones to follow up or not or to even publish or not.
>
> I also heard of a case where the editor rejected the paper
> because the p-value was .08; he told the author to resubmit
> when it gets down to .05. While this is an appropriate
> strategy under some circumstances for Bayesians, for those
> believing in p-values, it is not.
>
> >> The other point of that is when
> >> >other individuals perform research, such as individuals which proudly
> >remark
> >> >non drug money input, have a predetermined intended interest and
results
> >> >show a negative anti0interst finds they don't publish that. They may
> >tweek
> >> >the study to obtain results they wanted and then publish those.
> >> >It takes money to perform research and those people providing it
already
> >> >have a predetermined interest.
> >> >It is pretty much like a court of law where competing expert witnesses
> >are
> >> >bought and paid for.
>
>
>
>
> >> --
> >> This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
> >> are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
> >> Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
> >> hrubin@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX:
(765)494-0558
>
>
>
>
> --
> This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
> are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
> Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
> hrubin@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558
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