Re: Paleo Diet Low Fat?

From: tcomeau (tunderbar_at_hotmail.com)
Date: 08/20/04 

Date: 20 Aug 2004 11:36:07 -0700

Lyle McDonald <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in message news:<10ic1esesf1rr05@corp.supernews.com>...
> Ray Audette wrote:
>
> > Lyle McDonald <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in message
> >
> >>O'Keefe JH Jr, Cordain L.
> >>Mid America Heart Institute, Cardiovascular Consultants, Kansas City, MO
> >>64111, USA. jhokeefe@cc-pc.com
> >>
> >>Until 500 generations ago, all humans consumed
> >>only wild
> >>and unprocessed food foraged and hunted from their environment. These
> >>circumstances provided a diet high in lean protein, polyunsaturated fats
> >>(especially omega-3 [omega-3] fatty acids), monounsaturated fats, fiber,
> >>vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, and other beneficial phytochemicals.
> >>Historical and anthropological studies show hunter-gatherers generally to be
> >>healthy, fit, and largely free of the degenerative cardiovascular diseases
> >>common in modern societies.
> >
> >
> > Many have comented on the differences between Loren Cordain's low-fat
> > aproach to Paleolithic Nutrition in his book ("The Paleo Diet")vs. my
> > high fat recommendations in my book ( "NeanderThin").
> >
> > Loren based his recommendations on the fat content of modern game
> > animals. When asked about the fat content of Pleistocene animals, he
> > responded:
> > ............................................................................
> > From Cordain
> >
> > The fossil record shows
> > that the worldwide extinction of animals that took place at the end of
> > the
> > Pleistocene occurred primarily in animals over 100 kg (220 lbs) (5).
> > Using
> > the Pitts and Bullard regression (2), a 220 lb mammal would be
> > expected to
> > have about 15% body fat. Applying our cubic regressions (4) to this
> > value,
> > a 220 lb mammal would have 60 % of its total body energy as fat and
> > 40% as
> > protein. The protein value then is very close to maximal protein
> > ceiling
> > (also 40 % of energy) -- hence it is not surprising that the "cutoff"
> > values for megafauna extinction (100 kg) corresponds almost exactly to
> > the
> > value for the maximal physiological protein ceiling in humans. In
> > animals
> > weighing less than 100 kg, the entire carcass cannot be consumed
> > unless
> > there is a carbohydrate source, whereas in animals weighing more than
> > 100
> > kg, the entire carcass can be eaten with no worry about protein
> > toxicity and
> > with no need to find a carbohydrate source.
> >
> > 2. Pitts GC, Bullard TR. Some interspecific aspect of body
> > composition
> > in mammals. In: Body composition in animals and man. Washington
> > D.C.:
> > National Academy of Sciences, 1968:45-70. (Publication 1598).
> >
> > 4. Cordain L, Brand Miller J, Eaton SB, Mann N, Holt SHA, Speth
> > JD.
> > Plant-animal subsistence ratios and macronutrient energy estimations
> > in
> > worldwide hunter-gatherer diets. Am J Clin Nutr 2000;71:682-92.
> >
> > 5. Stuart AJ. Mammalian extinctions in the late pleistocene of
> > northern eurasia and north america. Biol Rev 1991;66:453-562.
> >
> > .......................................................................
> >
> > I hope this clears up seems to be ( at first glance) contradictory
> > views on Paleolithic Nutrition.
>
> It only points out that you know exactly nothing about a topic you claim
> expertise in and deign to write about. Or if you do, you're too
> intellectually dishonest to write truthfully about it.
>
> The point to tbe made from the different interpretations of paleo diets
> is that humans never followed a single diet. There was no single
> evolutionary diet.
>
> Rather, we are capable of adapting to a wide variety of diets ranging
> from low-carb/high fat (i.e. Alaskan Inuit although some carbohydrates
> were available seasonally) to high-carb/very low fat (Masai) to
> everything in between. It depended on the area of the world and foods
> that were available (this also changed throughout the season as foods
> became readily more or less available).
>
> Examinations of the ethnographic record and the conclusions reached
> depend a lot on the assumptions that are made about our evolutionary
> diet. Eaton comes up with one set of numbers and Cordain with another.
> And they are probably both right. To claim that it was either low-fat
> or high-fat is incorrect.
>
> And estimates range from 65% animal products to 35% animal products or
> less, fat intake ranging from very low to very high, same for carbs.
> There are a few commonalities but that's about it.
>
> I don't expect you to understand or accept this.
>
> Lyle

Commonalities among paleo diets, regardless of fat/protein/fat ratios:

1) Little or no *refined* carbs
2) Most, if not all, foods were fresh whole foods, with little or no
storage
3) All fats were naturally occurring and basically unchanged from
their original form, in other words, fats were not altered by
manufacturing processes, and they were mostly from healthy animal
sources (same with proteins)

TC

Relevant Pages

  • Paleo Diet Low Fat?
    ... > O'Keefe JH Jr, Cordain L. ... > circumstances provided a diet high in lean protein, ... Loren based his recommendations on the fat content of modern game ... When asked about the fat content of Pleistocene animals, ...
    (sci.med.nutrition)
  • Re: Paleo Diet Low Fat?
    ... >>O'Keefe JH Jr, Cordain L. ... >>circumstances provided a diet high in lean protein, ... When asked about the fat content of Pleistocene animals, ...
    (sci.med.nutrition)
  • Was Paleo Diet Low Fat
    ... Many have compared my book to Loren Cordain's "The Paleo Diet" ... animals contain such low amounts of fat. ... The protein value then is very close to maximal protein ...
    (sci.anthropology.paleo)
  • Re: trying to stay warm at work
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  • Re: Low Carb-Diets Focusing On Vegetable-Based Fat And Protein
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