Re: QUACKS don't do research..or they LIE about it.. like the drug companies
From: Dunne E. Dawe (never_at_never.again)
Date: 10/25/04
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Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:19:47 +0800
On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 18:59:51 GMT, "Phil Scott"
<philscott888@sf.sbcglobal.net> posted:
>
>"Dunne E. Dawe" <never@never.again> wrote in message
>news:3d4in0h9gbhr78rn3av2loghjsh8anbeht@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 02:58:54 GMT, "Phil Scott"
>> <philscott888@sf.sbcglobal.net> posted:
>>
>> >
>> >"Dunne E. Dawe" <never@never.again> wrote in message
>> >news:s78en0dg2ievkit6greafaur2tn5vbdij8@4ax.com...
>> >> On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:45:17 GMT, GMCarter
>> ><fiar@verizon.net> posted:
>> >>
>> >> > they will
>> >> >lie through their teeth to make more money, regardless
>of
>> >the
>> >> >consequences to health.
>> >>
>> >> Can you give us an example or two of these lies you refer
>> >to?
>> >
>> >
>> >sure...a few are logged at
>> >http://www.alternet.org/columnists/story/11219/
>>
>> Nope, sorry, there are no lies logged here. Just a rant
>about profits
>> by a private corporation.
>> I asked for lies told by "The big money corrupts top
>executives and
>> they will lie through their teeth to make more money,
>regardless of
>> the consequences to health." I suggest this is actually
>quite rare,
>> except in the popular press.
>
>Its probably much less common in Australia... its also less
>common in small towns in the US.....Corruption is absolutely
>the iron clad rule in the karger US however...corruption is
>utterly epidemic... to murderous levels...you apparently dont
>read much in that area...its head line old news in the US.
Point taken. I've known folk who lived in America and the stories of
bribery and corruption were rife, but facts about drugs are so much
more controlled by international research so that I contend that even
in US, health-damaging drug fraud is still quite rare.
I could be wrong on this though :-)
>> >If thats not enough for you go to
>>
>>http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=drug+company+lies&btnG=G
>oogle+Search
>>
>> That search digs up all the quacks. The first one is
>Mercola, a
>> sensationalist column, in my experience. Celebrex actually
>has lots of
>> advantages for SOME folk.
>
> correct... I will hother to argue the point. Adloph Hitler
>was also a great guy in some respects... it was those little
>glitches though you see that needed to be paid attention to.
>
>your logic precludes such discovery. I dont have time to
>engage you on the issue or pick one reference apart at a
>time... the evidence of massive fraud is utterly pervasive...
>sorry if you read search data selective,
Celebrex is a useful drug? Yes or no? ALL drugs have downsides. Look
at the gliches in such a wonderful drug as aspirin!
>>My sister in law has found that it is the
>> only NSAID that she can tolerate. I can tolerate any of
>them. They
>> have very idiosyncratic effects on folk. I find diclofenac
>fine for
>> me, and naprosyn virtually useless. I think calling this a
>lie is
>> being sensationalist,
>
> Look... get this STRAIGHT...I am NOT calling that sort of
>discrepancy a lie at all...not in the faintest..thats simply
>very very VERY....V E R Y legitimate...that is
>LEGITIMATE.... biological differences in the drug effects.
>
>If you are not able to parse that from fraud.... friend... you
>have a problem.
>
>I will not let it occupy any of my time.
So *don't* tell me what you are talking about. See if I care :-)
I believe Celebrex is a useful drug. Even though I have no idea what
it would do for me. It did my sister in law a power of good.
(Until she got her hip replacement and needs it no more.)
So where is this lie that has damaged people's health?
There may have been some lies and fraud in the process of getting this
to market, but that is surely down to your regulator letting the drug
company get away with things that the electorate would like curbing.
>> as I would expect from mercola.
>> Also, it has been found that some NSAIDS elevate blood
>pressure, and
>> Celebrex less so, so if this is a problem, try celebrex, and
>if it
>> works, you're in luck.
>
> amazing...
> your examples are not of fraud or lies..but simple
>clinical differences.
>
> Get a clooo mon..
But I thought these were the problems with Celebrex? You were claiming
it did nothing good and harmed everyone. Do you consider it a useful
drug as I do? Where's the fraud that has harmed folks' health?
>> >and get a few hundred more pages full of documented lies
>from
>> >these companies.
>>
>> More like winges about private companies maximising profits,
>which is
>> what they are supposed to do.
>
> Ohhh now I see... you have legitimate profit derived from
>presenting honest value with full disclosure confused with
>lying about research results, spinning research leaving out
>the deadly side effects and selling that... such stunning
>brilliance leaves me breathless.
>
> Amazing. Whatta guy
No, what I've seen is lots of whinging about prices. That's all. Then
some side effect was covered up? Look, everything has side effects for
some folk. That's why we have medicos prescribing and monitoring them.
>> If you want charity, get your government
>> to develop and manufacture drugs.
>
>That was bogus spin pal... and it doenst look good on you.
Hey you are being naive IMHO wanting corporations to adhere to your
moral values. BTW, I'm not arguing for one side or the other, just
asking for clarification.
>But well done on getting the QUACK issue threads further
>extended and more expose on the lies and rip offs endemic with
>many if not all pharms.
Rip off? So you agree that it's just the price that many are whinging
about?
>Nice work. One last thing. did you know that when you put
>up a bogus argument that it screws up your own brain? true
>fact pal... think about it.
Back at ya. You must have been dealing with non-facts for too many
years, from how your logic is sounding :-)
>and you end with a remark about the loss of credibiltiy by
>JAMA :) now thats a hoot.
>
>Look what you are not seeing with your bogus attempt here is
>that any of your bogus attempts just gets more people looking
>at the FRAUD... and they see your bogus spin and that clues
>them in more.. When the drug companies use lies and fraud they
>end up exposing themselves.
And you think I care about exposing fraud? I asked what the health
damaging fraud was and get mostly whinging about prices. OK, if you
want to keep is a secret....
>its real simple pal...and with the new drugs from India, Korea
>and China many of these drug companies are going to be
>toast... the world has about had it with their crap.
Your generalisations are breath taking. Religious, in fact.
But I hope the world gets as good a deal on medicvations as we in
Australia do. Not perfect, but far cheaper and fairer than in North
America, at least.
>Sorry...thats just how it is bud.
I understand, you can't help it :-)
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