Re: high dietary cholesterol = high blood cholesterol?

From: Mirek Fídler (cxl_at_volny.cz)
Date: 11/01/04 

Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 10:30:28 +0100

> >Can be. There are thin TypeII diabetics, or thin people with high TG.
>
> Yes but much fewer than the fat ones.

Nevertheless it brings chicken egg question back. Are we overweight first or
insulin resistant first?

> >Yes. Anyway, you should never understimate genetics.
>
> Absolutely, although it tends to get forgotten because you can't do a
> lot about it, but did you notice when Asians go to America, they get
> all the American diseases of affluence?

Depends on study...

> Yes. There is bound to be a genetic component, but then perhaps too a
> dietary component? What happens to Japanese smokers who move to
> America?

Interesting question. Any sources?

> >> Fat store status is surely an artefact of energy balance.
> >
> >Nobody argues this.
>
> Well I've been trying to show this to someone here recently with
> little success. Perhaps my explanations are not up to scratch.

Well, I believe that tcomeau formulates his posts in a very unfortunate way
in the first place...

> >> But anyway, why must I accept that a "high fat diet is effective for
> >> weight loss" when I claim that fatty acid problems are an artifact of
> >> being overweight. What is the connection? I can't see it, I'm afraid.
> >
> >You have suggested that improvement of lipid profiles on low-carb is
caused
> >by weight-loss. So you have actually admitted that high-fat diet is
> >effective, did not you? :)
>
> Not quite. What I tried to say was that the dyslipidaemia from
> overweight does not occur if the overweight is avoided. When you do
> have the dyslipidaemia, weight loss and carb avoidance will both help
> to normalise it. Is that different?

Is it so hard to accept that you can eat high-fat diet not counting calories
and experience weight-loss? :))))

> Yeah, but what were the controls? That nurses study looked at nurses
> on an atrocious American diet, apparently. OK as far as it goes, so
> long as you don't try to take it any further.

I am not speaking about nurses study here. There are dozens of controlled
short to medium term clinical studies, studying effects of dietary
composition on various lipid parameters like HDL, TG, LDL density etc... and
they all show consistent picture: Glycemic load always increases TG, lowers
HDL and decreses LDL particle size. You can even turn low-risc pattern A
profile people (large LDL particles, low risc for CAD) into high risc
pattern B by low-fat diet - it is well documented.

> BTW, only overweight "westernised" Indians are in trouble.

I do not think this is correct - not from what I have read. See, each time
when nutrition theory does not match reality we always see such ad-hoc
analyses.

I simply do not believe that Indians are more westernized than Japanesse.

> Too much refined cooking oils for one thing.

Well, perhaps. Wolfbrother would whole-heartly agreed with you here :)

> >Well, I think you do not ask the right questions:
> >
> >Why do we overeat?
>
> Animal drive for survival. Why do we screw? :-)

So why are some people not overeating? They have less animal drive for
survival?

And even the most overweight people have moment while they eat when they
are, at least for a short moment, satisfied. What is it that makes you
satisfied and what makes you satisfied sooner and for a longer period of
time?

> >and/or
> >
> >What kind of food are we overeating?
>
> The kind with calories in it.
> Simple :-)

And that is? Given that you are unable to absorb more than 200g of
fat/protein each day, but almost unlimited number of refined carbs?

Do you think that people are fat because they eat too much meat?

I know some fat people and all of them are fat because of "franken-food"
(all those sweet sticks) and because of overconsumtion of baked goods.
Nobody that I know is overeating unprocessed meat (cooking excluded :) - it
just seems that our bodies have well established sense for calories of some
food, but some of us are totally screwed when confrontated with quickly
absorbed carbs.

That said, hard physical activity can avoid most bad effects (but probably
not all) of those quick carb calories, but not everybody is able to exercise
for 40 hours a week.

Mirek

Relevant Pages

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  • The King and Queen of Good Health (OT)
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