Re: Vitimins I take / What I should add / Am I taking too many?

NoOption5L_at_aol.com
Date: 01/04/05 

Date: 3 Jan 2005 19:09:34 -0800

Larry Hoover wrote:

> > You're wasting your money. Take all that junk back. No amount of
> pills and potions are going to cure a poor diet. And if you're
eating
> a good diet, you don't that over-priced crap/supplements.

> > Here's what you trade that junk for:
> - Fresh fruits and vegetables
> - *Whole* grain breads and cereals
> - Lean meats
> - Quality dairy products
> - Green tea and lots of water

> Only one problem with that concept, Patrick. It's based on false
premises.

> 1. The RDA is a statistical concept, based on 2 standard deviations
above the
> Estimated Average Requirement. As such, it captures 97.5% of the
*normal, healthy*
> age-matched population. In other words, at the RDA, one in forty
normal healthy
> people displays overt deficiency symptoms. Basing an individual
dietary
> recommendation on a statistical concept is fallacious, as statistics
cannot be
> applied to individuals. Nor do we know anything about the "normalcy"
or health
> status of the individual seeking help.

Larry,

Instead of using a "shot-gun approach" with vitamin supplements, the
best advice is to first get your diet analyzed. I had my done not too
long ago and found I easily exceeded the RDA recommendations, sometimes
by 2-3 times, by just eating a varied diet of quality food.

Other problems with supplements are nutrient imbalances and toxicities,
and supplements can sometimes can give people a false sense of security
when they think their supplements will cover their diet deficiencies.

> 2. It is not possible to develop a diet, let alone a varied diet,
that
> simultaneously meets all defined RDAs, while simultaneously meeting
caloric targets.
> That is based on the USDA's own foodstuff nutrient database. I
challenge you, or
> anyone else, to show me otherwise.

Like I wrote above, I did it, and continue to do it, quite easily. The
"trick" is exercising enough to burn off the calories. (Yet, another
reason why exercise is so important.)

I also argue it's impossible to formulate the perfect supplement.

> 3. Nowhere in this whole RDA concept is a provision for optimal
intake. It is not
> even conceptualized. For many nutrients, the Upper Limit of intake is
100's or
> 1000's of times the RDA. In some cases, there is no UL. (As an aside,
many of the
> adverse events associated with setting an Upper Limit are actually
due to coincident
> deficiencies in related nutrients, rather than to toxic effects of
the nutrient
> itself.)

Everyone seems so concerned with getting "100%", or more, _every_ day.
I say relax. Your body won't shut down if you get a little less of
some nutrients for a day or two. And running lower on some nutrients a
day or two may allow others nutrients to be more effective.

> In my first point, above, I mentioned the EAR. Individuals vary
greatly in their
> innate nutrient requirement. It is quite true that some people thrive
on diets that
> do not meet the RDA for nutritional intake. I strongly suspect that
it is
> individuals like that who make make all this noise about other people
not needing
> supplements to optimize their health. Just as you cannot apply
statistics to an
> individual, it is equally fallacious to create generalizations from
individual
> experience. You, Patrick, may not need these supplements, (and I'd
make a sizable
> wager that you don't), but you cannot exclude the possibility that
the original
> poster may substantially benefit from increasing his nutrient intakes
far above
> their respective RDAs.

IF he needs some higher concentrations of some, again, first he needs
to consult an expert about his diet, have some tests done, and then I'd
recommend he increase the consumption of foods that will give him the
higher doses.

There are just to many little nutrients in foods, many still probably
unknown, that supplements will never duplicate. Plus, no supplement
will ever beat the taste of quality food... I say forget the pills and
potions and instead enjoy the Earth's bounty...
 
Patrick

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