Re: 'Terrors of the Table: The Curious History of Nutrition


jt wrote:
> On 7 Dec 2005 06:52:28 -0800, "TC" <tunderbar@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> >
> >jt wrote:
> >> On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 21:17:34 -0500, Susan <nevermind@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >x-no-archive: yes
> >> >
> >> >jt wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> No it just means if you WANT to eat that way you need to take a
> >> >> supplement.
> >> >
> >> >You missed my point. If it were a diet suited for humans it wouldn't be
> >> >so deficient in an essential nutrient. That's not how biology works.
> >> >
> >> > > Humans are not meant to do anything other than reproduce
> >> >> and die. Nature meant that once we are no longer reproductively viable
> >> >> we would die.
> >> >
> >> >Oh, crap, well, I'm pretty much violating the rules of nature by having
> >> >lots more fun than that.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > There are many things that "some of us" know today and
> >> >> do better than our ancestors, diet being one of them.
> >> >
> >> >Some of us do better than others at meeting our nutritional needs rather
> >> >than making a religion out of our eating habits.
> >> >
> >> >Susan
> >>
> >> There are religious zealots on both sides from the Weston Price cult
> >> to the animal rights nuts. One could argue whether an vegetarian diet
> >> or vegan diet is ideal but it is far better than say the typical
> >> American diet for instance. Most diseases degenerative or otherwise
> >> are from over consumption not under consumption of something like B12.
> >> TC will bring out the isolated case of a baby being starved to death
> >> on a vegan diet but ignore the thousands/millions of others that are
> >> overweight or obese and well on their way to type 2 diabetes and a
> >> whole slew of other diseases. Unfortunately TC and Vegans alike take
> >> things to the extreme and figure if a little is good a lot must be
> >> better. Avoiding refined sugar etc now becomes avoiding all carbs and
> >
> >I have never suggested avoiding all carbs. Ever. My emphasis is on
> >consuming fresh whole foods with the minimum of processing. That leaves
> >plenty of room for all kinds of carbs. And I was vilified for it.
> >
> >Many people pointed out to me repeatedly how silly and dangerous it is
> >to restrict an entire type of foods like carbs. But I never suggested
> >restricting ALL carbs, only the refined, processed and the very highest
> >GI-load carbs. And here are the vegetarians who insist on restricting
> >an entire category of food based on it being animal-sourced, regardless
> >of its importance in the diet.
> >
> >You cannot possibly compare me to these psychos.
>
> I think everyone in this group I hope thinks that highly processed and
> refined carbs found in the middle of the supermarket are unhealthy
> crap.
>
> However a diet of 70% carbs from healthy sources is going to cause
> someone their demise.
> >
> >> being a Vegan does not guarantee health if one just consumes coke and
> >> potato chips. As far as being undernourished I really am not seeing
> >> the widespread health problem of people getting sick or dying from a
> >> lack of b12 or other nutrients that are more heavily concentrated in
> >> animal products.
> >
> >They don't exactly scream it from the rooftops when their
> >self-inflicted health problems crop up. And many signs of
> >malnourishment are not that obvious to the casual observer. Most
> >doctors would not even pick up on the real cause of many of the
> >problems that vegetarians and vegans will eventually encounter. Many of
> >the problems from vegaetarian malnourishment are identical to many of
> >the common problems that come from the Standard American Diet, problems
> >like heart disease, crohn's, anxiety, depression, skin problems,
> >susceptibility to colds and flus, poor or slow healing, lack of energy,
>
> Well most of those could be cured with supplementation but what is
> causing the heart disease? It again boils down to poor food choices a
> vegan who chooses to eat a lot of hydrogenated vegtable oils, canola
> oil etc is going to be in trouble.
>
>
> >Vegetarians are virtually guaranteed to be deficient in some nutrients.
> >And it is virtually impossible for them to not just avoid the
> >deficiencies, but more importantly, to get the optimum amounts of the
> >necessary animal sourced nutrients. It cannot be done and vegetarians
> >will never get optimum health because they cannot get the optimum
> >amounts of animal sourced nutrients. By definition, vegetarianism is as
> >imbalanced a diet as any diet being promoted by anyone, anywhere.
> >
>

> It can be through supplementation or unwashed farm door produce.

That thing about getting certain nutrients from unwashed farm produce
is one of the most ridiculous concepts ever devised. In that case
vegetarians might as well supplement nutrients by eating dirt. Pretty
darned silly.

TC

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