Re: Very low fat versus very low carb diets

>>So you add your personal bias by selectively picking the studies that
support your own view? It could be worth to explore a little more and
post a
bit more extensive set of studies to get a wider view. <<

Matti, I am totally unaware of any studies which refute the points
which I have been making, supported by the most pertinent references,
and discussed in detail.

None of the studies you have posted in anyway contradicts the following
points:

1. A high quality/high carb, very low fat diet combined with exercise
produced unprecedented improvements in a large group of very advanced
Type II diabetics. Although I did not extend the discussion to include
people with cardiovascular disease and/or hypertension, the results in
these groups of patients were equally impressive and have never been
refuted.

2. In a prospective, randomized trial between an 11% carb/high fat
diet and a 49% carb diet, carried out in obese women with insulin
resistance, the high carb diet produced significantly lower
post-prandial blood sugars than the low carb diet, even though the high
carb diet did not meet targets regarding saturated fat, high quality
carbohydrates, etc. and did not include an exercise program.

3. In a rigorous, prospective study with a crossover design, with each
subject serving as his own control, there were no differences at all
between a modern day "high mono" diet of the type you prefer over a
high carb diet, save for significantly greater weight loss with the
high carb/low fat diet.

Add to that the paper published today in JAMA, which is the biggest and
best study ever done to address the impact of dietary fat on weight in
obese women (a study comprising nearly 48,000 subjects followed
rigorously and prospectively for 7 years), showing a hugely
significant, perfectly linear relationship between dietary fat
consumption and weight loss or weight gain, to wit:

http://www.weisenthal.org/swimming/jama_295_39-49_2006_fig_5.jpg

This study constitutes irrefutable proof of the relationship between
dietary fat intake and weight loss or weight gain.

There is nothing, but nothing in the literature which comes close.

You can throw up 5,000 low quality, flawed references if you want. Who
cares? You've "lost" this one.

But, no you haven't. Because, unlike you, I do NOT believe in the
lowest common denominator theory of diet, meaning that what holds for a
population as a whole necessarily holds for an individual. For the
average person, yes, we now have DEFINITIVE evidence that weight is
directly proportional to dietary fat intake. But for individuals,
there are doubtless many "outliers" who would do better with some form
of diet different from that which is best for the average person.

It all makes sense. There is no contradiction. No controversy, save in
the minds of die hard diet Nazis.

Look at the U Pittsburgh registry. Look at the Okinawan centenarians.
It's all a beautifully unified reality.

If you disagree, please do something other than post a blizzard of
meaningless studies. Tell me exactly WHY I'm wrong. Tell me what data
is incorrect or misrepresented. Show me specific data from your
blizzard of search engine retrievals which contradicts anything I've
said.

You think you understand this perfectly, but it's the poison of
certitude, nurtured by herd mentality thinking and personal dietary
preferences.

Why do you think that the preponderance of papers on nutritional
effects on exercise performance from the 1980s favored high carb diets
and 15 years later very similar studies purport to favor high fat
diets? Herd mentality. Certitude. Bias.

Doug said it perfectly. Where's the beef? I'll use another analogy.
Show me the money. You think I'm wrong? Well -- be a real scientist
(as opposed to a mindless internet librarian) and engage me in actual
scientific debate. Show me precisely where I'm wrong and why I'm wrong
and what SPECIFIC data prove that I'm wrong.

When I asked this from Susan, she responded with a burst of profanity
and vituperation and stuck her fingers in her ears.

I'm hoping that you can do better.

- Larry W

.

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