Re: (Oxydized) LDL not Mr. Bad Guy?

montygram wrote:
Arachidonic is much more biochemically active than Mead acid, which is
why some like Enig say that it is a "filler" and ineffective. Those
who attack me want it both ways. If it is so much less biochemically
active (as all agree with,

Unlikely since you've never said what you mean by biochemically active.

including myself, except, apparently
MattLB), then it will not cause the kinds of problems AA does.

In an LDL particle it's irrelevant whether it's AA or Mead. They're
both PUFA and both do nothing biochemical, because they have to be in
cells to do that.

Moreover, I am suggesting that the body should produce Mead acid on its
own, rather than getting it from the diet. In this way, you rely on
the intelligence of cells to refrain from producing something dangerous
to themselves.

What an impressive example of your ignorance. Ever hear of lactic acid?

I don't know how MattLB thinks the oxLDL is going to get to the artery
wall if it is not in ciruculation first,

It's unlikely to be oxidized in circulation, but as soon as it gets
lodged outside the bloodstream it's more prone to attack since there's
less vitamin C to recycle the vitamin E in the particle.

though it's true that the
antibodies could very well be a red herring here. What MattLB is
talking about is not the first stage of "coronary heart disease" -

Yes it is. The initial insult requires that LDL be accumulated at a
specific point. There's a reason that plaques occur in particular
places in particular arteries and not at random, you know.

inflammation will occur first, and the oxLDL is acting as an irritant
that stresses cells, which then signal for the "immune system."

So inflammation is second, then. Or do you have your own definition of
inflammation too in which the immune system isn't involved?

Then
the macrophages come in and are rendered dysfunctional, creating what
one scientist called "death zones" in the artery walls. This is when
plaque formation begins.

This is when it becomes visually detectable.

It is important to point out that to have so much oxLDL as to cause
this problem, your diet has to be really bad: full of PUFAs, meat
cooked while exposed to air, and few antioxidant-rich foods.

Not true. All the above makes it more likely, but you still have to
recognise that it is a local phenomenon and that there are many
contributing factors other than those you mention.

MattLB

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Inflammation and Evolution
    ... directed towards destruction of bacteria. ... tissue cleaning types of inflammation. ... is limited to the bare minimum required to remove the cells which are ... dedicated immune system is extremely energy-intensive. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Fibromyalgia [OT]
    ... immune system has something to "attack" (like a virus), ... inflammation pretty much goes away. ...
    (rec.pets.cats.anecdotes)
  • Re: Genetically engineered micro-organisms to fight disease?
    ... >>If only it were so easy to distinguish a patient's cancer cells from ... produced to fight the pathogen cross-react and also attack the beta ... surface that is not found in normal cells, ...
    (sci.med)
  • Re: Genetically engineered micro-organisms to fight disease?
    ... >>If only it were so easy to distinguish a patient's cancer cells from ... produced to fight the pathogen cross-react and also attack the beta ... surface that is not found in normal cells, ...
    (sci.med.diseases.cancer)
  • Re: Mitoxantrone, low WBC and another attack
    ... attack in 6 months, relatively good for me. ... So I had my 3rd dose of Mitoxantrone on April 23. ... get a blood test to check my white blood count. ... Now I would assume that at the point when My immune system has been knocked ...
    (alt.support.mult-sclerosis)