Re: crave carbs

Jim Chinnis wrote:

They're missing out on the goodness/and taste of many
fruits, vegetables and whole grains. That's a tragedy. Samplying
nature's vast bounty of fruit, vegetables and whole grains is one of
the best things in life...

I'm one of those people you are disparaging. A lot of people have problems
with carb cravings and overeating because they eat too many carbs for
someone who is even a tad overweight. I don't suggest that they eat cheese
and meat and stop eating all carbs. I think they should stop eating things
made from flour--whole grain or not--potatoes, rice, and sweets. Make the
carbs count by eating healthy produce, but skip the starchy stuff.

First let me reiterate a point. People were not/are not getting fat
eating whole grains. Most of these overweight people don't even know
what a whole grain is. They think any bread, baked goods, crackers or
whatever, that's grainy, and not soft and creamy smooth in the mouth,
is "weird".

I agree. But if they switched their branless, germless grain products for
so-called whole grain (flour) products, they'd not have any less carb
craving nor would they lose weight. The glucose and insulin responses are
virtually identical.

Whole grain products are digested slower than white/enriched flour.
Plus, how often do you eat _just_ a slice of bread? My bread is
usually served as part of a sandwich or with a meal.

Whole grains are very nutritious, they fill you up, and keep you filled
up.

I'm not so sure. There is fiber in wholegrain products, but it has been
removed from the endosperm. So there is still a spike in glucose in most
overweight people.

Whole grain = germ, bran and endosperm. When whole grains are used to
make a bread you're getting all the bran. And bran plus water/liquid
fills you up.

As for the "spike", see above.

After a while, when the weight has dropped, try adding in some whole grain
stuff and see if the weight stays right and the cravings stay away.

Here's my "diet plan". Eat only healthy foods (see the whfoods.com)
and get more exercise. The fat will come off and will be replaced with
muscle. I say screw worrying about weight/numbers. It's about eating
wholesome foods and keeping/building muscle.

No will argue with eating healthy and exercising. The issue is what,
exactly, is healthy.

whfoods.com

There are really a lot of data of various kinds now that indicate that lots
of high-glycemic carbs aren't so good for at least a lot of us. There's also
a lot of weakness in the arguments that high fat diets are bad for
us--they're probably wrong.

Worrying about food glycemic-numbers is a waste. Too many variables.
For instance, carrots are high glycemic, right? But what if those
carrots are sitting on top of a salad with olive oil? The oil is
surely going to slow down the digestive process, right.

The glycemic effect of carrots is nil, unless you eat a few kg. And, no, the
oil won't stop the rapid breakdown of the carb in the carrot. The oil is
digested very slowly. What would slow down the digestion of the carrot would
be if it were something else, like whole kernel rye--something with a fine
structure that slows its digestion.

But it's all in your gut at the same time. Some will burn faster,
others slower, for a nice even burn.

The thing is most of the time people consume a number of foods at a
meal. So if you're eating some nuts, eggs, beans, or fish for lunch
how is the high-glycemic (and very nutritious) watermelon for desert
going to hurt?

It hurts less as dessert. I often have fruit as a dessert. But the
overweight carb-cravers have mostly carbs, from what I've seen.

The overweight people I see eat, yes, carbs, but in the form white
flour, white sugar, corn syrup products. Please don't lump whole grain
products with "convenient" foods.) I also see them eating lots of
greasy/fatty meats in the form of sausages, hotdogs, hamburgers and
bacon.

We evolved our metabolisms without eating any "whole grain" at all.

Most every ancient society has had a grain/grains at the center of
their diet.

But we had already evolved our metabolic systems before those ancient
society discovered the wonders of bread.

The people who developed the breads are the ones who built the
societies/civilizations.

I really think that we were ok with high carb until we got machines to do everything for
us combined with an overabundance of cheap food--mostly carbs.

Agreed, but don't include whole-grain products. (We as a society have
not been exclusively eating whole grains for a longgg time.) And do
include the cheap hamburgers, hotdogs, sausages, 12 oz steaks, pork
ribs, etc sold at every fast food place.

The combination of sloth and abundance is deadly. And diets centered on flour heaps
on the injury.

Agreed, but enriched/non-whole-grain flour.

The term is used in the US just to mean ground up, broken seeds from grains, where
the components are present in the flour in the rough proportions they are in
the whole kernels. During our evolution, we ate some whole kernel grains
(with very low glycemic indices) but no "whole grain" breads and such at all
(with their high glycemic indices).

If you ever get a chance to live in the Middle East, you'll see that in
the "cradle of civilization" bread is at the center of the diet.

We also didn't profess revulsion at bacon for being fatty. We ate pretty
much the whole animal.

Yes, lean animals (and meat free of sodium nitrate). Not the lab
experiments they call animals these days.

Agree.

Note: In the Middle East, lamb, chicken and fish is often served, and
is nearly always in between or on top of bread.

What we didn't have were baked goods, trans fats, and any foods that weren't
"whole."

I agree. Baked goods should be an ocassional treat. Trans
fats/hydrogenated oils should have been off the market way back in the
70s. Whole foods and whole grains are good.

(We also didn't have feed-lot meats [and even fish] raised on
grain, with their altered lipid profiles, but that's a different issue.)

Agreed. See above.

You have some good points, Jim. I only suggest you don't shy away from
any fruits, veggies, or whole grains.

I have some whole grain every day. I like it. And I have grown organic
produce, and eat it every day. I also buy grass fed meat from local farmers,
etc. I like a wide range of foreign food for that matter.

Good for you! Organic and/or local is good stuff!

Things are improving in the supermarkets. Whole-grains are getting
more popular by the day (I remember back when you couldn't find any
whole grain-products (expect in health food stores). Organic is now
huge, grass fed beef and even things like buffalo meat are available.
Things are a changin'... finally.

But I've kept records. I gain weight when my carbs go up. I can lose it
pretty easily by watching the carbs. I watch the carbs by cutting out those
with a high glycemic load. It's not so complicated.

I don't even worry about percentage of carbs/proteins/fats I eat. I
just eat the types of foods that are on whfoods.com, and in organic
and/or local form whenever I can get them. I also believe it's all in
the ingredients in recipes. If I want a burger it's made from
buffalo/turkey/ostrich meat, etc. If I want pancakes, I use
whole-grain flours and pure maple syrup. If I want something sweet,
I'll grab some blackberries, a kiwi, or perhaps, a piece of 85% cocoa
dark chocolate bar. And I vary/don't limit my selections. Flours I
use are amaranth, spelt, barley, buckwheat, rye, millet, etc.
Nuts/seeds: almonds, Brazil, pecans, sunflower, walnuts, pumpkin etc.
It's all good!

I also exercise, before you ask. I cycle and walk a lot and I work out
almost every day at the gym. Despite that, I *still* pile on pounds if I eat
the usual recommended low-fat, high-carb diet. I've tried it.

Keep in mind it's the calories not the carbs.

Is it even possible to eat enough fresh fruit that you'd become
overweight? I think you'd either become stuffed full or have the shits
long before you exceeded your caloric max for the day.

And the research I've followed over the past six years shows I'm not unusual
in my response.

The research I've been following over the past 21 years has been saying
mostly the same things: a constant variety of veggies, fruits, whole
grains, lean meats/dairy, nuts/seeds, spices and teas.

I've also seen a lot of diets come and go. The popular diets weave
some truth inbetween the bull. They hook you with the truth and hope
you follow the bull long enough to buy their diet book (looked at one
this weekend -- the book cost $29.95, and according to scam artist... I
mean author, he's sold 3 million copies. Do the math. Not a bad take,
huh?) vitamin pills or supplements. These diets are all a scam to make
money. The truth isn't rocket science, it's out already out there, and
it shouldn't cost you a thing.

Patrick

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