Re: Will the "MattLB" types now admit they are wrong?

On Nov 17, 10:21 pm, Ron Peterson <r...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Nov 17, 6:44 am, Taka <taka0...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Nov 15, 12:20 pm, Ron Peterson <r...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I am taking a 1 g capsule containing 360 mg EPA and 240 mg DHA daily.
I started about 2 years ago.
That may be just within the "upper safe limit".

I also eat fish and use walnut and canola oils. I also eat nuts
(including peanuts and pepitas).

The highly unsaturated oils may be less of a problem in their natural
context where they come with the proper "dose" of antioxidants.

Where does this "upper safe limit come from?

Just my guess based on personal experience and some published data.
Taking it in small capsules seemed to be fine while ingesting 1-2
tablespoons daily was clearly wrong. See e.g. the papers of
"Spiteller G" in Medline:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=DetailsSearch&Term=%22Spiteller+G%22%5BAuthor%5D

or the following paper:

Am J Clin Nutr. 2000 Jan;71(1 Suppl):197S-201S.

Safety considerations of polyunsaturated fatty acids.

Eritsland J.
Department of Cardiology, Ullevâl University Hospital, Oslo, Norway.

The n-6 and n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) are essential
nutrients; intake of relatively small amounts of these fatty acids
prevents nutritional deficiencies. Replacing dietary saturated fat
with PUFAs may confer health gains. Experimental data support the
notion that high intake of n-6 PUFAs may increase in vivo lipid
peroxidation. This effect may be counteracted by dietary antioxidant
supplementation. The influence of a high n-3 PUFA intake on measures
of lipid peroxidation has been equivocal. In clinical trials, subjects
who consumed diets rich in n-6 or n-3 PUFAs had fewer atherothrombotic
endpoints than did control groups. In this report, data regarding the
influence of PUFAs on lipid peroxidation as well as on cholesterol and
glucose metabolism, hemostasis, and other aspects of interest are
reviewed and discussed. Currently, daily intake of PUFAs as >10% of
total energy is not recommended. Below this ceiling there is little
evidence that high dietary intake of n-6 or n-3 PUFAs implies health
risks.
PMID: 10617971

It took me 3-4 years to suffer serious damage from taking at least 5 g
flax/fish oil daily.

What type of damage and was it from ALA, EPA, or DHA?

It doesn't matter which one exactly but EPA+DHA seem worst because in
addition to lipid peroxides they also inhibit the body repair
mechanisms which are mediated by nothing else than healthy
inflammation.

After 3 years on it I got IBS, lost 7kg in about a month and one more
year was sufficient to break cartilage in the knee (I was loading it
though so your "mileage" may vary). Food intolerances also appeared,
probiotics made me sicker because the lactobacilly were apparently
getting "clingy" as Monty says. Pollen allergies got worst too. I
also collapsed in an episode similar to what happened to another fish
oil advocate Dr. Mercola:
http://www.mercola.com/2006/aug/8/the_best_deadly_poisons_ingested_or_inhaled.htm
It all started to improve after I eliminated the supplements, reduced
vegetable oil intake and switched to butter and coconut oil. So if
you are supplementing with Omega-3 in larger doses first expect
gastrointestinal disturbances, then autoimmunity and lastly damage to
the connective tissues. Also one of the organs to be hit first is the
gall bladder because it detoxifies the lipid peroxides.

Are you concerned about omega 6 fatty acids?

Not so much if not in excess, since I am physically active and AA is
used up during muscle training (see the AA supplementation thread on
Monty's forum).

Are you concerned about MUFA consumption?

No, it's the "meat fat" after all. But excessive cooking in the
absence of antioxidants is not a good idea.

I am sure that my percentage body fat dropped. I found that I lost
epidermal fat first, and abdominal fat later. (the body burns
saturated fat slower than the unsaturated)

I would say trans-fat is burned slower. Saturated fat like coconut
oil (MCFA) is burned very fast. Also the VAT goes first and skin fat
last usually.

I like the menu suggestions that Hauser has, but I am not sure about
his reasoning.

Yeah, the blood pH connection is not very clear to me either but it
seems to work at least for their clients.

Taka
.