Re: OT - kids biting other kids

From: ChrissyPete2 (chrissypete2_at_aol.com)
Date: 12/03/04 

Date: 03 Dec 2004 02:26:02 GMT

>Now I feel like a rebel mom! I would've been on the phone to the
>teacher wanting to know why kids were being required to read something
>three times - isn't once enough

This is going to be loooong so back out now if ya want. I just can't help it
and I have to get this off of my chest.

Ya know...I just got another call from this teacher and I'm trying really,
really hard to understand what the "real" issue is here. I'm near tears I'm so
frustrated. The game I'm playing is letting the teacher say what she will
(trying to listen carefully for any clues as to what the issue actually is)
while trying to teach my son to just comply with the way things are; that is
the way life goes through most of school afterall (I never thought learning
about all of the dead people in history was worth a hill of beans myself but I
did it). I believe trying to offer him exceptions as to what is okay to
question and what is not would only cause him more grief.

I believe I typed a report on his teacher to boot. I'm just really starting to
wonder here.

Here is how it started -- last year in kindergarten, the teacher said that he
wouldn't follow direction the first time he was told. Review after review she
would say the same thing, despite the fact that I changed the situation at
home. I also found it odd that while his report card would say that he didn't
recognize the "ch" or "ly" sound, he could do it right then and there during
the actual meeting (I had to take the kids with me to the conferences) and then
she would cross it off. I just saw a kid not realizing it wasn't the norm to be
told more than once to do the same task (the monster I created during a very
busy year and for which I completely take the blame and carry the guilt over)
and a kid who much rather prefers fun over anything monotonous or boring; a
child who will find a way to make anything more fun than it actually is or
should be--a trait most folks have complimented him on since practically the
age of one. I told the kindergarten teacher to send his ass to the office and
have the principal scare the pants off of him because he is a child who needs a
consequence. He is smart this way. She wouldn't do it and instead just kept
relaying her message. Close to the end of the year, I told her to do it and
that if it made her feel better that I be present, then give me a call. She
literally said "Well, it is the end of the year. We could just see how it goes
next year." I knew at that point working with her to fix "her" problem with
"him" was a lost cause. My son was smart enough to change his behavior at home
over the end of that school year and throughout the summer due to finally
getting some more home consistency, but I couldn't change his behavior there
while I'm here. He just knows the difference. Plus, I feel that since that
teacher was so willing to nurture the monster I created by willingly and
casually repeating a directive to him, he would just accept THAT as the norm.

This year, I met his 1st grade teacher before he did and I told her about the
issue from kindergarten. I think I may have inadvertantly set him up for
failure in an analytical person's mind versus what I had planned on
happening....this teacher taking the bull by the horns and telling him "This is
my class and this is how it goes in here." Instead, she sat back and
overanalyzed him and she too reinforced the behavior by willing to let it go on
for a whole marking period. Yet, I had talked to her part way through the first
marking period and I asked her "Is he doing what he should the first time he is
asked?" She said "He must be because I'm not having any problems." Then came
the PT conference where this woman had me literally in tears. I couldn't even
speak for an hour afterward. She said things like "I really believe that if he
could do these things, he would be." as if he was uncontrollable or incapable,
and "I think it is behavioral. I think it is an inability to control his
impulses." among other things.

I got really ticked off and told her that I was really upset that it took even
this long to get to this point. Why won't anyone consequence him? Answer: "Well
we don't want to remove him from the classroom because then he wouldn't be
doing what it is he is here to do be doing -- learning." Aaargh! Can't anyone
see that it could just take one good scare and the kid won't want that
particular punishment again? "We can't send him to the office during recess
unless he is sick. No one is allowed to go to the office." and "I can't keep
him here in the classroom from recess because we are too busy during lunch."
etc.

This is kind of like talking to Sybil to boot. I call her up one day with an
idea....how about I take many precious things away from him, like I did this
year, but this time you help me in deciphering whether he has earned anything
back by providing me feedback with a general "good day" or "bad day" note. (My
point being that he is capable - just doesn't have the desire to please anyone
in particular). She agreed, which is a good thing considering how a lot of
teachers can't be bothered with these issues. She even takes it one step
further, she broke down a *** into Reminders needed for: following directions
and two other categories I can't remember because they've never been marked.
Anyway, the first day comes home with four items on it and that was all it
took. Every card from every day thereafter has come home with a "Great!" or a
"Wonderful!" on it. Until today - no note. She then tells me that she wants to
break it down further to include another category that will include the number
of times he had to be told something as did the other first graders. Well, I
don't get this. Why is this even an issue if it is normal for all of the other
first graders to be told too?

My son is a full-time comedian so I know that has to cause some friction with a
teacher when he steals the show so to speak. The point is it is wrong, but
isn't it also the point that the teacher has to convey that message to him? I
can't figure out how I went from "He is such a little leader and he is soo
funny." to the implied "he can't control himself" and "he is incapable".

The four issues that day were as follows:
1. Teacher was busy with other students and directing others to the carpeted
area. She heard some commotion and turned around to see my son and Malynn
holding the backs of their heads. She asked them what happened and they both
had the same story -- Jacob was standing over them making claws with his hands
in the air over him. My son backed up and they bonked heads. She accused him of
trying to make everyone laugh by overreacting and asked him if he thought he
was in any real danger by Jacob's actions, to which he responded "No." and he
denied that he was trying to make everyone laugh. She told him that she didn't
believe him.

2. Teacher had children getting ready for bingo where they choose a character
card (bears, ducks, etc.) A child with an Indian name picked bears and my child
said "So and so likes bears?" out loud. She removed him from the area and
wouldn't let him play. She told him that it was wrong to try to get a laugh at
someone else's expense by questioning their choice, with which I agree. He
denied that that was what he was doing, but she accused him of not telling the
truth here either. She also had him write an apology letter to this child.

3. This one breaks my heart -- teacher was calling names in a rapid succession
as a signal for children to clean up after math and put their stuff away. She
got distracted by a child and when she turned around, there was my son putting
his stuff away without having had his name called first.

4. After recess, they have a QT (quiet time) where they ready themselves for
reentry into learning with what teacher says are very specific rules (but which
she cannot clearly define to me). It is alright to ask someone else to pick up
your pencil during QT and it is alright to go get a piece of paper during QT
and it is alright to go to the bathroom during QT. My son went to a classmate
and asked to borrow his stapler. She gave him a look and he tried to tell her
what he was doing, but she held up a hand and stopped him and asked him to come
to her. He did. She asked him "What do you think my look meant?" He took a
guess and said "Sit down?" She said "Yes, so why didn't you?" He again tried to
explain that he was wanting to borrow a stapler but she wouldn't let him.

Here are my issues....

1. Did Jacob get into any trouble for causing what this particular teacher
calls rough-housing or endangerment?, which is what she accused my son of. When
I asked my son about the situation, he got down and showed me how it happened.
He was in a crab-walk position, on his hands and feet with his bum close to the
ground, so I really do not see how badly he could have overreacted that way to
endanger another student.

2. When asked why he questioned the Indian child's choice, he said "I just
don't like bears and I thought it was different." I asked him if it ever
occurred to him that that child's last name was BlackBear and that may be why
HE liked bears. His eyebrows went up and he said "Ahhh, that makes sense." I
asked him what his apology letter said to him and he told me "Dear so and so,
I'm sorry that I don't like bears."

3. The heartbreaking point of number three here is that I had just spent four
days explaining to this child how there are two students in a class that always
stand out to a teacher, the first one being the student who NEVER has to be
told multiple times to do something and who just seems to know what and when to
do their jobs and the student who always needs talking to. I asked him which
one he wanted to be and he told me the first one. What I see here is my child
doing exactly what I just pounded into his brain over and over again and then
getting into trouble for it -- trying to put his supplies away when he saw that
was the next job to do.

4. Can a first grader really differentiate what an almost complete stranger's
"looks" are? My guess is that his "Sit down" was a guess based entirely on the
feeling he was getting from her. If she even tells me that she has not nor will
not differentiate between the exceptions to the QT rules (because that would
just cause an uneccesary drawn-out discussion) such as "is a bloody nose
okay?", is he really supposed to know that getting a piece of paper or talking
to ask someone to get your pencil is okay, but that quietly asking another
student for a stapler isn't? (her unspoken reasoning behind this to me and not
the children is that it could lead to discussion between the two children).
????

Today she tells me that it was a crazy day, almost as if it were the first day
of school again, as we had a snow day with no school and multiple power outages
yesterday. The kids had a new routine to learn, what to do with their snow
pants and boots, etc. and what to do with them during lunch time before recess
and after and how to get them home, etc. She said that it was the same for
everyone in the class and that she doesn't see that the behavior is really
changed all that much. Her issue today was that there were groups of children.
Each group was handed a stack of papers. Each paper had a child's name on it
within the group. They were to take their paper and pass the stack on, etc.
etc. Jake was second to last so only Chase's remained after him. She said that
she was busy with another student but saw that Jake was asking Carli if it were
her's. She said that Chase said "It's mine." but Jake didn't give it to him.
When I ask Jake about it, he tells me that both Chase and Carli started with a
C and he thought that there was a mistake and that Carli had gotten two.
Teacher thinks Jake was trying to tease Chase by not giving it to him and made
him apologize.

I don't get it....what are the "Great!s" and "Wonderful!'s" for then? If Jake
was that crafty at school, as she implies, then I would surely be seeing some
of that here. He is so transparent to me.

I just happened to have had to run my daughter in for pinkeye just after our
initial PT conference, wherein I was still completely worried about what I was
told. I briefly talked to the pediatrician about it and asked who would be the
best person to schedule a prolonged appointment with. He said right then and
there that it sounded like it was mostly genetic (hubby is a comedian and loved
by all) and that I had an extremely intelligent child on my hands that they
didn't know how to engage. I felt that the good comments were proof enough that
he was capable and that it would take more than just my punishments at home to
get this point across to him.

When we take and pickup my son from school, it is literally amazing how
well-liked and popular he is. It is almost dumbfounding. I've accompanied him
to class a couple of times just to see if he would know his morning routine AND
do it. Only to find that he is immediately surrounded by 15 other children who
completely encircle him and one who even wraps his arms around my son (with his
arms stuck at his side with no defense) and lifts him from the ground and won't
let him go, but I know that Jake secretly loves the adoration. We get kids
hollering his name down the hallway with funny inside jokes, etc. My son
doesn't even know half of these childrens' names, but they all know Jake. I
constantly get "Are you Jake's mom? He is soo funny. My son/daughter just
adores him."

I'll tell you what I see and I am not one of those mothers with blinders on --
if there is a problem, I want only the best for my children and that means
accepting the bad with the good. I see a child who was labeled with
"comedian/funny guy" and is trying to hang onto it as if it were his
confirmation of acceptance. I also see a child who doesn't fall apart when in
trouble - he takes it in stride because he knows he deserved it (others find
this odd). I see a child who has a hard time telling his friends to leave him
alone so he can do his job, which he has started to change. He will come home
now and say "I told Caleb to quit talking to me until I did this or that." And
a child who is coming to grips that being asked multiple times to do anything
is not acceptable.

The comment I got from my mom and MIL were supportive, as they are our harshest
critics in pointing out our parenting mistakes. My mother reminds me that Jim
Carey's teacher finally gave up and made a deal with him -- if she would give
him 15 minutes a day to entertain his classmates, she would have the rest of
the day of his attention and it worked. What if I have a future Jim Carey on my
hands and everyone in his life is trying desperately to beat it out of him? I'm
not saying he deserves 15 minutes a day of anything and I frankly wouldn't
agree to that because I do believe he should just learn to comply. He's
starting to say things like "I do bad at school." etc., but he doesn't - he
does good work on his jobs. My MIL reminds me just how much like my husband he
is and then I think back to high school and get really scared. LOL. Hubby had a
similar problem, but when they pulled him out of school and had him tested, his
IQ was high and the docs just said "There is nothing wrong with this child. He
just isn't interested in what is going on there."

I just have this sinking feeling I'm about to run a long race wherein I'm
proving to others there isn't anything wrong with him because I'm starting to
fear that if I don't, these two teachers that he got his start with will have
labeled him in a way that will follow him throughout the rest of his school
career. I'll do it too, I guess I just don't really understand why I'm being
pushed to this point.

Sorry so long guys, but I feel a little better now.

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