Re: seeking information

Sandi,
I think we all have personal reasons for feeling the way we do, myself
included. However, I will not open up about the details of my private life.

But I will say this ... I can understand where your brother is coming from.
Sometimes an individual will push you too far and you've had enough. It's
really no different than a marriage ending.

And being a parent does not (and should not) automatically entitle an
individual to immunity.



"Sandi" <sanditypes@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:4o9vdkFdn198U1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Well, I believe that you have to try, and it sounds like everyone has done
that. She's not going to accept any sort of proper help, so unfortunately
at that point I would say, "This is what I can do for you, and I'm sorry
you're not willing to accept it." Your brother shouldn't have to sell his
house, unless he was going to do that anyway, but he doesn't seem to have
the wherewithal to remove himself from the situation otherwise. :(

I'm sorry that you have to deal with this. I agree that we don't choose
our parents, but I just file that under the "life ain't fair" heading.

I have personal reasons for feeling the way that I do. My brother decided
that my mother was "too toxic" and publicly broke ties with not only her
but the rest of us (except my grandmother) as well a few years ago. My
mother divorced my father only months after he was born, and she had a
really hard time for a lot of years. As a result, she wasn't the most
pleasant person to be around, but she wasn't the raging harridan he now
apparently has convinced himself that she was, either. Also, my mother
has a very outspoken personality, on subjects that are her business and
subjects that are not, and that is just the way she is. I don't think
that having an imperfect personality is grounds for what he has done, and
I would hate to think that after I sacrificed so much in my life to raise
my son alone for years, which I did as well, that my son would now decide
to throw up in my face some unkind comment I made or some school activity
I missed, and cite that as his reason for having nothing to do with me.
My mother is heartbroken even years later, and so am I, and I don't
believe there is any excuse for what my brother did. She is his mother.
End of story.

Sandi

"JCav" <j35cav@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1159709605.958554.53700@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I certainly agree with you about the pets, children thing, because I
chose them and have a responsibility, not to mention a desire, to stay
true to my choices. As far as a parent goes, I didn't choose them.
Heck, I don't think she really even chose me. I am an IUD baby. I do
like your suggestion about each of us kicking in something toward her
living expenses; the problem is she doesn't want anything to do with
any of us, even the youngest except for the fact that he puts up with
her abuse. If you stand up for yourself, she writes you off as no
longer her offspring. She takes honor thy father and mother to a new
extreme. She gets barely over $600 in disability so really we would
have a long way to go to supplement that, but really the major problem
is she has stated in no uncertain terms that she isn't going anywhere
and we're going to have to carry her out in a circus tent (hey, these
are her words not mine, she seems proud to weigh over 400 pounds and
not be able to walk). I suggested to my brother that when he gets
married, just sell the house, pack up his stuff while she's sleeping
and let her figure out what she's going to do next. If she wants any
help, guess she'll have to call and make nice. I really am a very
forgiving person and have tried to patch things up, but she just calls
me filthy names because I won't be suckered into her expectation of
aiding and abetting her (like refusing to buy her candy and ice cream).
This is a curious side note, but I recently saw a show where that 700+
pound guy was in the hospital and his wife was bringing him chips and
soda and fast food and everyone was wondering aloud why she would do
that knowing that it's killing him. From hearing her talk about it,
you would think he was the sweetest, most loving person in the world,
but I just wonder if she was covering for some kind of abuse on his
part. I don't know that for a fact, but I have a pretty good sense of
what a bed-ridden person could or would use as leverage for getting
what they want. I guess it's hard to understand when you haven't been
there. Just like him, I am certain it will kill her too, and then
maybe on her deathbed, she will tell me she loves me. Time to go to a
codependents anonymous meeting.

Sandi wrote:
"JCav" <j35cav@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1159701491.577610.208160@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Phyllis Nilsson wrote:
"With the price of cigarettes, he'd probably be able to get his car
fixed if
he gave them up."

I was kinda thinking this but didn't want to sound like a hardass or a
stick in the mud. We all have our little vices that make life a
little
more interesting or tolerable, but we have to know when to sacrifice
for our own well-being.

Kind of on topic, I wonder what others' opinions are on being
"obligated" to help care for parents who aren't elderly, but rather
their health problems and disabilities are a result of poor choices
rather than aging. What then? The scenario: Three siblings, 1
divorced male long-haul truck driver, 1 single male who owns his own
home and is looking to get married, 1 married daughter with 4
children.
Mother divorced, 56 years old (so not elderly) but disabled and unable
to work for the past year due to complications of diabetes, and super
morbidly obese, mostly confined to a wheelchair. Okay, you guessed
it;
this is my family's situation. My mother has been morbidly obese and
diabetic for over 10 years, and at least 5 years ago, resigned herself
to a wheelchair. My youngest brother is really the only one that has
any room for her (my older brother rents a room from our younger
brother as he is only home 1 week out of 5; and I have a 3 bedroom
home
with 6 people and refuse to put all the children in 1 room or have any
of them share a room with her), and the situation seemed to be okay
while she was able to pay her way, though it certainly wasn't ideal.
She is very abrasive and hostile, yells obscenities, and honestly she
is extremely lazy and slobbish. About a year ago, she was
hospitalized
for a DVT and then transferred to a skilled nursing facility. She
actually stayed with me for a couple of months but her abuse was
outlandish. Even picking her up from the hospital, she had threatened
by 4-year-old that "if you don't shut up, I'm gonna shove my fist down
your throat." I absolutely refuse to have my children around her
anymore because no matter how much you confront her, she always has
some sort of "justification" for her behavior. I feel really sorry
for
my brother because he can't bring himself to tell her to go even
though
she belittles him, calls him all sorts of filthy obscenities if he
doesn't wait on her hand and foot (he finally refused to do her
grocery
shopping long after I stopped doing it), and even treats his fiancee
the same way. I can't tell you the number of times his girlfriend has
called me in tears because of the verbal barrages. Makes me wonder if
she will eventually say her or me, and he won't be able to bring
himself to turn his mother out, and he will end up single and unhappy.
He is 34 years old, wants to get married, but has this weight pulling
him down. She is not elderly, refuses to change or lose weight and
really I think she could go to work if she put her mind to it, she
just
has no problem with being a leech and feels an entitlement to do so
even if it ruins the lives of everyone around her. Truly, I wish I
knew what kind of advice to give my brother because he seems so tense
and fearful that he eventually will have to make a decision between
his
mom and his girlfriend of 2 years. His fiancee is adamant she "will
not live under the same roof as that woman," so is he supposed to pay
for 2 homes when they get married next year? Not to mention all the
things he does that she can't or won't do; in short order, that home
would look like one of those houses that has been condemned as a
health
hazard. It seems like an impossible situation.

Does she get disability? If so, she should be able to live (albeit
modestly) on her own. If she can't, then perhaps a small stipend from
each
of the three, not just the brother, would enable her to. She doesn't
sound
like someone that any of the children can live with (except maybe the
long-haul trucker who is gone all the time anyway - that's a thought).
I
wouldn't expose the children to her, but still wouldn't do nothing at
all,
either.

I'm sure it's apparent from my previous posts, but I feel very strongly
that
barring some abuse so severe as to warrant removal from the home or
criminal
prosecution (such as sexual abuse or something equally severe), the fact
that a person has a toxic personality isn't enough to merit complete
abandonment by one's children. I don't feel, as some here do, that this
applies to any family member. If I had a raging alcoholic "mean-drunk"
cousin, I certainly wouldn't feel the same obligation to him. But if
they
did little else but raise you to adulthood, parents are the reason we
are
here to begin with, and with that, I feel, come certain
responsibilities.

To veer completely off-topic, I feel this way about pets, too. I have 3
cats. In recent years I've come less of a "cat person" than I once was.
I
now find the hair, clawed furniture and catbox/canned food stink much
less
charming than I did. I'd give anything to buy some new furniture
(ooooh,
even leather) and know it wouldn't be destroyed in a month, or walk into
my
house without smelling canned food, which one of my cats has to have
because
of a medical condition. But I took these fellows on, and they're mine,
just
like family members, so I wouldn't dream of giving them away or even
being
particularly cross with them.

Parents, kids and pets. That's my list of unconditional responsibility.
I'd expand that to my 87-year-old grandmother in my case, but that's
because
when I was little she babysat me while my mother worked and was
essentially
a second parent to me.

YMMV, but to steal a phrase from Judith, it's my opinion, and I am
unanimous
in it. :)

Sandi





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