Re: "Screening" tests

From: George Conklin (georgeconklin1_at_earthlink.net)
Date: 07/06/04 

Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2004 17:06:56 GMT

"Leonard Evens" <len@math.northwestern.edu> wrote in message
news:vYOdndo5RP_yJHfdRVn-hQ@comcast.com...
> George Conklin wrote:
> > "Robert" <Robert@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:10eki89hu42t20e@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> >>"George Conklin" <georgeconklin1@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >>news:l5mGc.6040$R36.1224@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> >>
> >>>"Beachhouse" <sendnomail@please.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:ccc22u$13a2$1@spnode25.nerdc.ufl.edu...
> >>>
> >>>>"George Conklin" <nilknoc@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >>>>news:ywfGc.8957$yy1.1196@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> >>>>
> >>>>> You could have written the same comment to women about HRT. Then
> >>
> >>the
> >>
> >>>>>women got the real science done and they found treatments which were
> >>>>>supposed to overcome health problems ended up CAUSING them.
> >
> > Prostate
> >
> >>>>cancer
> >>>>
> >>>>>treatments are still undergoing evaluation which is a crime because
> >>
> >>this
> >>
> >>>>>should have happened before widespread use of PSA. PSA is a test
> >>>
> >>>chasing
> >>>
> >>>>a
> >>>>
> >>>>>market, pushed on by fear at the current time.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>what we are missing is a non-invasive screening test for prostate
> >
> > cancer
> >
> >>>>that will give the clinician information on not only the likelihood
> >
> > that
> >
> >>>the
> >>>
> >>>>patient truly *has* prostate cancer, but also the likelihood that it
> >>
> >>will
> >>
> >>>>become invasive... that's why many groups (american college of
> >>>
> >>>physicians,
> >>>
> >>>>u.s. preventive services task force) do not advocate routine PSA"s for
> >>
> >>the
> >>
> >>>>general population... (family history of prostate cancer excepted..).
> >>>
> >>>The
> >>>
> >>>>current P.S.A. is a suboptimal test.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Of course, we still know that every man who reaches 80 can test
> >
> > positive
> >
> >>>for prostate cancer, and probably a lot more others besides. What we
> >
> > also
> >
> >>>do not yet know is if current treatments such a surgery really do add
to
> >>>life expectancy. We hope so, but no one has looked yet, after 100
> >
> > years.
> >
> >>>
> >>When someone has cancer at 80 years old I don't know what you mean by
life
> >>expectancy as it means nothing at that age.
> >
> >
> > This is a totally igornant comment. Every male will test postive by
age
> > 80. That does not mean a thing about life expectancy, zilch.
>
> Again, I ask for a reference. Your statement is not very precise, but
> we have to presume we are talking about living men, and that they are
> tested by some specific method. There are two tests in common use, but
> they are used together. Do you mean that every man past 80 will have a
> PSA result above a certain level? I don't think that is true. But in
> any case, a PSA test by itself does not lead to a diagnosis of prostate
> cancer. So are you saying that a biopsy on a man past 80 will always
> come up with a diagnosis of prostate cancer? That is certainly not true.
>

  It has been known for at least half a century from work on cadavers that
men over 80 have cancers of the prostate which can be easily seen. Some
physicians today say they will test a man over 80 only if he brings BOTH his
parents with him to the office visit. No joke.

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