Re: Newsday on statins: cardiologist says muscle pain can be extreme
bae_at_cs.toronto.no-uce.edu.yyz
Date: 08/13/04
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Date: 13 Aug 2004 13:55:48 GMT
In article <10hort2f407ar08@corp.supernews.com>,
Robert <Robert@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"fresh~horses" <fresh~horses@despammed.com> wrote in message
>news:abf8de5b.0408121129.a552c10@posting.google.com...
>> GMCarter <fiar@verizon.net> wrote in message
>news:<ogpmh0h2ut1hd5qrbqra8le2mngvld72ob@4ax.com>...
>> > On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 11:29:07 -0700, "Robert" <Robert@hotmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > snip...
>> >
>> > >MONTREAL -- Anahit Cilinger won't soon forget her despair in the fall
>and
>> > >winter of 1999. Fresh from surgery to have a cancerous tumour removed
>from
>> > >her breast, the Montreal grandmother anxiously awaited an appointment
>to
>> > >begin radiation treatment.
>> > >Ms. Cilinger called her Montreal hospital every day for a slot.
>Sometimes,
>> > >she called twice a day. Every time, the answer was the same: There was
>no
>> > >room for her.
>> >
>> > As if this kind of thing never happens in the United States?? Please.
>> > It is MUCH worse here.
>> >
>> > 43+ million of us don't even have the opportunity to MAKE this call.
>> > No insurance.
>>
>> I suspect the OP is lifting stuff off the Fraser Think Tank (snort)
>> website. Anyway. As you know Quebec plays it's own game with it's own
>> rules. Who knows what venue....
>>
>> Mrs. Cilinger has my sympathy. Let's hope she doesn't march out the
>> door at the next election and vote for the politicians who brought
>> this mess to being: conservative governments. You'd be surprised
>> George, how many people whine about what these govts do, then vote for
>> them because, at the last minute prior to a provincial election, for
>> example, they decide to cover, for seniors say, what they de-insured
>> just after the last election.
Here in Ontario we just kicked out a Conservative government which
promised tax cuts and reduced spending. The tax cuts amounted to an
average of about $100 per taxpayer, and the healthcare and the
education systems were severely impacted. These guys sold off a lot of
public property including profitable crown corporations to their
buddies at a discount, and committed other disastrous acts of
"privatization". E.g. they closed the government labs which monitored
municipal water quality, and told municipalities to use private labs.
Eleven people, mostly infants and the elderly, died of E.Coli
infections when a municipal well in Walkerton was contaminated by a
feedlot. The works department there didn't act when they got the bad
report from the private lab, and there was no one to make them do so.
They cut back on meat inspection, and at least one enterprising packer
made a lot of money selling meat from animals unfit for human
consumption.
The Conservative government lied about their budget, and left an
immense debt for their successors who won't be able to repair the
damage they did under that burden. Some of the damage is irreparable.
>> 2. She had a type of breast cancer that is less dangerous than someone
>> at the top of the list. Triage, as Bob pointed out in another thread.
>
>You make my stomach turn with nausea as you consider someone who needs to
>have cancer treatment on a triage list. Pathetic little women you are who
>pushes that utter crap on people. Trage for breast cancer, you and your
>system is pathetic. You creat an artificical shortage and then triage for
>needed cancer treatment. May God help you. You spit on people and then tell
>them it's raining.
She got immediate and appropriate treatment -- surgery. She had to
wait for follow-up radiotherapy. Evidence is that waits up to 10 weeks
don't impact outcomes, although they are certainly undesirable if only
for the stress they put the patient under. In general, breast cancer
is much less aggressive in older women than in pre-menopausal ones.
Most of the horror people have for breast cancer is due to its rapid
and difficult to treat course in young women, but most cases occur in
older women, in whom it is much slower to progress and easier to manage.
When resources are limited, triage is necessary. You can triage on
factors like ability to benefit, or on ability to pay. Do you really
think every woman in the US would get better or faster treatment? Do
you think US hospitals have the staff and facilities to provide the
best treatment to every US resident independent of ability to pay? Do
you think they provide such care to every patient who can benefit from
it? Do you think only people who can pay for it deserve good health
care?
>> I have a friend who was diagnosed with a very invasive and dangerous
>> type of breast cancer last summer. Within a week she had a mastectomy.
>> Within two she had begun subsequent treatment which included radiation
>> and chemo.
This is the usual case and would be the same whether the poster's
friend had a good job and plenty in the bank or was struggling to pay
the rent.
We don't have children with heart defects waiting years while their
families beg for money or charity for surgery for them. We don't have
people in the early treatable stages of diseases who don't go to a
doctor with their early symptoms solely because they can't afford it or
those who miss screening for cervical and breast cancer, hypertension,
diabetes and other conditions for the same reason. We don't have
people living in dread that medical bills from an accident or illness
in themselves or their families will wipe out their life savings. We
don't have people who can't change jobs (or get a divorce) because they
or a family member with a chronic condition will lose insurance
coverage. We don't have people bitter and eager to sue because despite
all they paid, they had a bad outcome, or even more bitter that they or
their loved one is suffering or dying prematurely because they can't
afford treatment. We don't have people who can't see a specialist or
change doctors because their HMO won't authorize it, or the doctor
won't accept patients who don't have a particular insurance plan. We
don't have doctors wasting their time begging insurance clerks to
authorize payments for necessary procedures, nor wasting their
intellectual resources on keeping track of what this patient's
insurance will and won't cover, nor needing to pay extra office staff
to handle all the insurance paperwork.
>> The shortages and long waiting lists, if they exist, have been created
>> by a government eager to dip it's hands and those of it's cronies in
>> the largest money maker going.
There's some of that, but there's also the problem that new procedures
are more expensive. Before CAT scans and MRI imaging, surgeons worked
without them. Now they are standard of care. People put up with a lot
of conditions like sinus problems and back trouble before there were
good treatments for them. Now they can and should be treated, but it
costs. Organ transplants save lives but they are very costly. Before
bone marrow transplants more cancer patients died sooner, but this is a
very expensive procedure. As an oncologist once told me in this
context: Morphine is cheap. Colonoscopy is very effective in screening
for colorectal cancer in its early treatable stages, but it is not cheap.
People are living longer and older people require more medical care.
With advancing technology and an aging population, health care costs
will continue to go up, and will have to be paid for. I think people in
Ontario at least are recognizing this -- they saw how little "fat"
there was to be trimmed off the healthcare budget, when promises of tax
cuts resulted in reduced hospital beds, overworked staff and longer
waits for expensive diagnostics and treatments.
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