Women as 'farm animals' (Vent: FAO Ericka, Naomi)

From: Todd Gastaldo (tgastaldo_at_earthlink.net)
Date: 10/11/04 

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:24:09 GMT

WOMEN AS "FARM ANIMALS" See below.

QUESTION FOR NAOMI: Are women "bothered" when OBs close their birth canals
up to 30%?

Two years ago, Naomi wrote:

"If [women] don't know that they have other choices of position (and, if
they really don't know -- it means that they've done NO reading whatsoever),
then it won't bother them if they aren't offered the choice..."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=1859fad3.0204170639.72cd0206%40posting.google.com

TODD'S ANSWER: Women should not have to read - or ask OBs - to get OBs to
allow their birth canals to open an "extra" up to 30%.

Some women ARE "bothered" - with unexplained paralyzed babies - as OBs
close birth canals and wrench tiny spines.

Naomi, since I forgot to mention this fact two years ago, I reproduce below
my "rant" from two years ago - with an addendum.

Here's the CRUX of my "rant" in regard to Naomi's CURRENT post....

When stirrups are used in semisitting births, they support the legs
nicely at delivery...

BUT they also support the woman as she sits on her baby's skull.

Naomi apparently knew this two years ago - but still sat on her baby's skull
and couldn't see any reason not to (see below).

My sense from her current post is that Naomi apparently still thinks that if
a woman doesn't care enough to read - it is quite alright for OBs to keep
the birth canal closed - even if OBs
know they are closing birth canals.

The medical literature bears out the fact that OB experts know they are
closing birth canals.

The medical literature bears out the fact that OB experts LIED to cover-up.

The medical literature bears out the fact that OBs are KEEPING birth canals
closed when they pull with hands, forceps and vacuums...

Even if some women are not bothered - babies are likely bothered - with
unexplained brain bleeds, unexplained paralyses and sometimes unexplained
deaths - as OBs close birth canals and wrench baby spines...

See my addendum to my reply to Naomi two years ago...

WOMEN AS "FARM ANIMALS"

Amy wrote (and I agree):

>> Stirrups to me say 'farm animal' rather than a labouring, in control
>>human being. Sorry Todd, but stirrups are a real man invention. I would
>>detest being 'restrained' in any way during labour. I did not see stirrups
>>of any kind at the hospital where I

Todd remarks: Farm animals are treated better than women at birth!

Naomi Pardue replied:

>
> Just for the record, I don't think stirrups in contemporary hospitals
> 'restrain' as much as 'support.' YOu aren't tied or strapped into it as
> was
> usual a generation or two ago. I found them very helpful for holding my
> legs
> so they didn't get tired. ANd they were adjustable so I could find the
> position in which I could push most comfortably. (Whether they would have
> worked if I'd been side-lying, I couldn't say. I was sitting up.)
>
>
> Naomi
> CAPPA Certified Lactation Educator
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=20041009083408.26518.00002050%40mb-m03.aol.com&output=gplain

Naomi,

Kelly thinks that regular stirrups have been used for side-lying...

"IIRC^^^ the hospital here where I work now has been able to rig up a
sidelying
stirrup. Somehow the regular stirrup moves out like an arm so the upper leg
is supported. The beds also have flip up foot supports which are so nice to
use in many ways."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&selm=10mh3fro248jf02%40corp.supernews.com

^^^IIRC = If I Remember Correctly (I think)...

Naomi, you uncritically noted your semisitting birth again.

Pregnant women who may not know better are reading...

Semisitting should not be blithely mentioned anymore than OBs and CNMwives
should blithely use the birth-canal-closing position...

Hence I repeat my "rant" from two years ago...with an addendum...

>>>>>>>> BEGIN Todd's rant from two years ago

It's *not* just MDs closing birth canals up to 30%!

Naomi (npardue@indiana.edu) wrote:

"Todd's ranting aside, most women (esp. if they've had an epidural and
so can't use the more out-of-the-ordinary positions), will give birth
just fine, whatever position they are in."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=1859fad3.0204170639.72cd0206%40posting.google.com

Arrrggghhhh!!! What about the BABY????!!!

An estimated 4.6% of "healthy" term babies are born with unexplained brain
bleeds - and Australian obstetrician Norman Beischer, MD has guessed that 10
to 15% of stillbirths were just fine right before delivery!!

Why risk it? Why risk closing your birth canal up to 30%?

Naomi continued...

"If [women] don't know that they have other choices of position (and, if
they really don't know -- it
means that they've done NO reading whatsoever), then it won't bother
them if they aren't offered the choice..."

ARRRRGGGGHHH!!!

What about the BABIES!!!???

Naomi concluded...

"I'd had an epidural. I couldn't stand up, much less squat or kneel...I
worked with the nurse
to find a position that I could push in comfortably. Once I was in
that position, I couldn't see any particular reason to change. (I was
sitting up on the bed, with stirrups supporting my legs and giving me
something to push against.)"
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=1859fad3.0204170639.72cd0206%40po
sting.google.com

Naomi supported herself on her sacrum! On her baby's skull as it passed
through her pelvic outlet!

Again, an estimated 4.6% of "healthy" term babies are born with unexplained
brain bleeds.

Yes most babies survive and thrive - but how astonishing - Naomi fails to
see "any particular reason" to get off her sacrum!

>>>>BEGIN Oct. 9, 2004 ADDENDUM

Naomi also wrote in her post two years ago:

"First of all, I'm not saying that all women would go in and demand
alternative positions. I'm saying that the vast majority of doctors
(even if they're not
'on the leading edge of alternative birthing') should be familiar with
the concept of alternative positions, so if mom says "I want to be
squatting," he won't act like she's some loony out of the local
commune. He will have HEARD of it, and know that squatting is a common
and desirable position.
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=1859fad3.0204170639.72cd0206%40posting.google.com

WHOA! The vast majority of OBs - "alternative" or otherwise - HAVE heard -
in the medical literature - that semisitting and dorsal close the birth
canal.

Closing the birth canal should not even be an option.

And in this sick universe where it IS an option - THE option - we have Naomi
suggesting
that closing the birth canal is no big thing - " it won't bother them if
they aren't offered the choice..."

Closing the birth canal is associated with death and paralysis.

Mothers with paralyzed babies are slowly learning that OBs did not offer
their babies the "choice" of maximal pelvic outlet area at delivery...

Mothers with paralyzed babies are slowly learning that OBs are keeping birth
canals closed when there are problems...

When Ericka Kammerer wrote:

"[I]t is not uncommon to proceed to a[n]...instrumental delivery without
even trying different positions that might open the birth canal more."
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=8IOdnT0mLqgZ9_jcRVn-ig%40comcast.com&output=gplain

I replied: it's much worse than Ericka thinks...

Even if OBs and CNMwives try alternative delivery positions that open the
birth canal - some move the woman back to semisitting/dorsal/close her birth
canal for the actual delivery even if instrumental delivery is not
required...

If instrumental delivery *is* required, it is the OB NORM to pull with hands
and instruments (forceps, vacuums) with the birth canal closed up to 30%.

I warned the Society of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists of Canada
(SOGC) that semisitting closes the birth canal up to 30% - but SOGC still
promotes semisitting/closing the birth canal...

"The traditional lithotomy position commonly used
in obstetric units can certainly be modified to obtain a
semi-sitting posture and hence achieve the benefit
derived from the upright position..."
SOGC CLINICAL PRACTICE GUIDELINES
POLICY STATEMENT No. 71, December 1998
http://www.sogc.org/SOGCnet/sogc_docs/common/guide/pdfs/healthybegeng.pdf

Worse...

SOGC still says (same document): "[T]he traditional lithotomy
position...should...be reserved for cases of operative delivery
[vacuum/forceps]."

Arrgghhhh! Traditional lithotomy - like semi-sitting/semi-recumbency -
CLOSES THE BIRTH CANAL!

You don't pull on the baby's head with the birth canal closed!

In the 90s, Yale CNMwifery Prof. Helen Varney ignored my pleas and promoted
semisittinig delivery - closing the birth canal...

CNMwifery Prof. Varney STILL writes in her 2004 edition:

"The usual positions in a hospital delivery room are lithotomy or dorsal.
Midwives believe that in neither of these positions does the woman have to
be flat on her back; rather, they encourage a semisitting, or 'back up' and
'legs down,' modification of these positions." (!)
[Varney H. Varney's Midwifery. Sudbury, MA: Jones and Bartlett. 4th ed.
2004:839]

CNMwife Helen's Fig. 28-12 shows a CNMwife "helping" a woman into
semisitting!

Also on p. 839: "In the event of...shoulder dystocia...the woman should be
in a lithotomy position..."

This is criminal OB and CNMwife behavior.

MY GUESS: OBs and CNMwives *must* keep recommending closing birth canals
because stopping would be tantamount to admitting MASSIVE obvious criminal
negligence that sometimes escalates to criminally negligent homicide.

This is why I favor pardons in advance for MDs. MDs are just academic prime
cuts forced through this culture's most powerful mental meatgrinder.

CNMwives are still mostly obedient handmaidens.

See Criminal medical CAM at Hawai'i's John A Burns School of Medicine
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2256

>>>>> END Oct. 9, 2004 ADDENDUM

>>>>>END Todd's rant from two years ago, with addendum

FAO Ericka Kammerer...

I asked,

> Does Henci mention that OBs are closing birth canals up to 30% in her
> chapter on suspected large babies?

See A birth BINGO! A HUSBAND!
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2840

You didn't have time to scan...

"I don't recall a mention of '30 percent' but she
says that it's wise to avoid an epidural so that the
woman can better achieve positions that make birthing
a large baby easier/more successful. I don't have time
to scan the whole book to see if she mentions more
details elsewhere."
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=eMednbHuisJXCfjcRVn-iQ%40comcast.com&output=gplain

I went to Barnes and Noble and scanned Henci's book.

I found NO mention that semisitting - the most common birth position -
closes the birth canal.

I found NO mention that OBs generally KEEP the birth canal closed when they
use forceps and vacuums.

And where Henci criticized dorsal lithotomy/dorsal positions she only
mentioned compression of the major blood vessels and concern for the
perineum - NO mention of closing the birth canal!

I was just scanning - so perhaps I missed something - but I don't think I
did because Henci was silent about the grisly White Elephant
birth-canal-closing fact in a 2002 article - after I telephoned her and
emailed her...

See Henci Goer's mysterious silence about a White Elephant Fact...
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2336

Henci positions herself opposed to obstetricians, presenting "the other
side"...

I am thinking that perhaps Henci has been hired/positioned to specifically
not mention the obvious OB felony of closing the birth canal...

We are throwing women doulas instead of stopping OB felony behavior...

Sure women should have doulas - but WHY should they have to ASK for things
like an "extra" up to 30% for them and their babies?

When Kevin wrote:

> Well, I've never been in a delivery room before AND I'm not the woman
> having
> the child so, assuming that my wife's too stressed or upset to think
> straight, why on earth would they care about what I suggest?

You replied:

"That's what being a support person *means*. You help
her think through issues and help remember the things that
might help when she's too involved in labor to remember
them herself (if that happens). If you don't feel comfortable
in that role (and if you don't think your SIL
feels comfortable with that) you might consider hiring a doula
for professional labor support. That's precisely what they're
trained to do."
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=j7qdnT0pY7oREvjcRVn-tA%40comcast.com&output=gplain

My experience has been that even experienced doulas (Penny Simkin springs to
mind) run the other way rather than mention the White Elephant fact
explicitly.

When Kevin wrote:

> Other than that though, even if my "assertive" SIL pushes the issue
> (assuming I can convince her over the next few days), couldn't they just
> insist on "their way or the highway"? They are the doctor(s) incharge.

You replied:

 "That's the sort of thinking that can get you
steamrolled. You (or more particularly, your wife) has
rights. You or she may have to fight to get them, but
she does have them."

WHY do women have to FIGHT for their rights?

BABIES are getting steamrolled - squashed through birth canals literally
closed up to 30%.

What about THEIR rights?

Kevin wrote:

> Helping her get on her side is not going to be a problem (I don't think),
> especially with two of us there, even if the nurses don't want to do it.
> I
> don't understand how that would work though. I guess my only experience
> in
> this area is TV or childbirth class videos and ALL of them have women
> delivering on their back or sitting up. That's the generally accept
> method
> I guess.

You replied:

 "Yep. That's why so few people think to do any
differently..."

WHOA! What about the most prominent childbirth educators, midwives and
doulas are studiously FAILING TO MENTION that these positions close the
birth canal?!

In response to Kevin's guessing, I replied...

"MY guess is that organized medicine has alternative' birth writers (even on
the usenet) studiously IGNORING the White Elephant Fact that semisitting and
dorsal CLOSE the birth canal up to 30%.

"If YOU were a multi-billion dollar per year industry committing obvious
criminal negligence - wouldn't YOU hire some good writers to be your
'enemies'?"

See A birth BINGO! A HUSBAND!
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2840

Ericka, I am pleased to see you explicitly mentioning that semisitting and
dorsal close the birth canal up to 30% - but I urge you to look into this
bizarre phenomenon of prominent "alternative" birth professionals failing to
mention this fact.

When Kevin wrote:

> Maybe we should prepare the Drs ahead of time at our next appointment and
> let them know about what we're thinking. Hopefully we don't get attitude
> about it. In my experience Drs don't like to be told how to do their job.

You replied:

 "Yep. They can be a pain to deal with in that regard
(or they can be a real dream--here's hoping it's the latter).
But remember, you're not asking permission...."

WHY is it a pain to get obstetricians to allow women to allow their birth
canals to open?

Why don't obstetricians do this AUTOMATICALLY?

You continued...

 "Write up a birth
plan in which you summarize (nicely and concisely) what you're
looking for. For instance, you might address things like
...she wants to be allowed and encouraged
to use different positions during first and second stage..."

ARRGGGHH... WHY SHOULD WOMEN HAVE TO ASK FOR THIS - "NICELY" OR OTHERWISE?

WHY AREN'T OBs JUST **DOING** IT - AUTOMATICALLY?

SOME ARE - BUT MOST AREN'T.

THAT'S THE CRIME - AND I DO MEAN CRIME.

You continued...

" All of
these can make a big difference, and in most cases, the
default practice is not the one supported by medical
evidence as being the best choice."

The default practice of closing the birth canal up to 30% is buttressed by
ongoing OB LYING - which "the other side" (Henci and others) are
mysteriously failing to mention...

You continued your reply to Kevin:

"You're right that most doctors (or anyone else,
really) doesn't want to be told how to do their job.
On the other hand, it's not the doctor's job to give
birth. That is your *wife's* job, and she should have
the primary say in how she wants to be able to do it."

"SHOULD" - women ARE asking permission.

You continued...

"After all, the doctor is your hired help, not God."

The doctor is a member of a powerful profession that anti-scientifically and
anti-competitively STOMPED midwives en route to becoming all-powerful
criminals who can STILL blithely close birth canals and commit other obvious
felonies - and women have to be "tactful" in pointing this out, as in,

"You will certainly have to be very tactful during this
discussion, but it is your right to have it and to have
your/your wife's preferences respected and accommodated
unless they're *really* out of line. None of these
things are even close to out of line."

Why not say, "OBs are really out of line and OBs will likely STAY out of
line - because ending their obvious felonies would be tantamout to OBs
admitting their obvious felonies - so you have to be tactful in calling
attention to the fact that they are out of line/committing obvious
felonies."

If this isn't the case, WHY are they still closing birth canals?

I'm all ears.

Finally, there was this...

Kevin wrote:

> Are there any good books, websites, illustrations about delivering in
> other
> positions, other than back and sitting up. I have to get " Henci Goer's
> _The Thinking Woman's Guide to a Better Birth", I know a lot of people on
> here have recommended it.

You replied with another plug for Henci's book

"That's probably one of your best resources, especially
since it's a very accessible book. To be honest, I know there
are a lot of books out there that show possible positions,
but I'm not sure which are which. You could probably just
leaf through some books at the bookstore. When you get right down
to it, though, if your wife has an epidural, her only real
option is side-lying. If she doesn't, by far the most likely
options are side-lying or hands and knees unless there's
a birthing stool available. They're not all that
complicated to figure out in the moment even if you don't
have a diagram ;-)
Again, a doula might also be a great option.
You're paying them to be your in-the-moment resource
for all this stuff and to help you negotiate your
way through the process. Most people say it's money
well spent (insurance occasionally even covers) and
studies show better outcomes and higher satisfaction
when doulas are used.
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=j7qdnT0pY7oREvjcRVn-tA%40comcast.com&output=gplain

I am all for doulas - but how bizarre that women need to hire women to help
prevent obvious OB felonies.

And no problem with mentioning Henci's book - it is good - but why not
mention that Henci bizarrely fails to mention that OBs are closing birth
canals?

Again...

In response to Kevin's guessing, I replied...

"MY guess is that organized medicine has alternative' birth writers (even on
the usenet) studiously IGNORING the White Elephant Fact that semisitting and
dorsal CLOSE the birth canal up to 30%.

"If YOU were a multi-billion dollar per year industry committing obvious
criminal negligence - wouldn't YOU hire some good writers to be your
'enemies'?"

End of vent.

Ericka, I am glad you are explicitly mentioning that OBs are closing birth
canals up to 30%.

My sense is that we wouldn't do such a thing to farm animals.

Thanks for reading,

Sincerely,

Todd

Dr. Gastaldo
todd@chiromotion.com

PS I pleased to see Cathy Weeks replied on my "Side-lying stirrup" thread:

"...a side-lying stirrup sounds great to me. The ones I've
seen were only designed to prop up the legs - padded rests and such,
with no straps, and adjustible. I think as long as they are easy to
get in and out of, they are useful...I delivered in the side-lying position
at home, and my husband and
best friend took turns holding up my leg - it DOES get tired, and so
did they - a leg isn't exactly a light-weight appendage!"
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&selm=7ae7e34a.0410091212.7e664031%40posting.google.com

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