Re: How to Become a Christian, Version 1.01

From: Bob (this one) (Bob_at_nospam.com)
Date: 10/12/04 

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 10:10:56 -0400

Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> Happy Dog wrote:
>
>><snip> It's clear that you believe
>>that god can make a rock too heavy to lift and lift it.
>
> Speaking as one who is well versed in physics, lifting something is defined by
> both frame of reference and exerting an opposing force that exceeds a
> gravitational force.

As usual, Andrew misses the entire point to create his own irrelevant
analysis. It's not about rocks or force or frame of reference. It's
about mututally exclusive terms. It's about impossibility by
definition. It's about ideas.

As for that analysis about physics, it's as flawed and deliberately
narrow as the rest of the charade in this thread. The question might
be more broadly framed as "Can God make an immovable object and then
move it?" To make it easy to grasp, "move" means simply to locate it
somewhere other than where it started, in or out of the universe. No
direction, no gravitation, no examination of forces. Just have it be
otherwhere at the end.

It's the old immovable object versus the irresistible force conundrum.
One must be falsely defined at their confrontation. And if it's God
who is to do both the construction of the object and wield the power,
one part must be deficient in fact.

> Our heavenly Father is creator of everything, the universe, the natural laws of
> the universe, and time. He unifies all the forces of the universe. Such an
> incredible omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent Entity is greater than any frame
> of reference or force in this universe. A frame of reference can be chosen to
> define the movement of us mere mortals who are infinitesimally smaller than
> Him. There is no such frame of reference for God. He is simply too big and too
> all encompassing and too all powerful.

This is a wonderful premise from which to say *anything* about God. If
it's accepted as a reasonable beginning, there's nothing left to say;
all further assertions proceed from it to any conclusion desired by
the person speaking.

If, OTOH, the premise is seen merely as a statement of one person's
faith and, as such, separate from logic or reason, then anything that
proceeds from it can be dismissed as the mouthings of the besotted. If
some bits of evidence can be offered, some part of it may be accepted,
but the entire concept must pass muster as reasonable and believable
for it to be accepted as offered.

So, Andrew, can God make something simultaneously nothing? How could
that be? It is or it is not at this moment.

>>That's faith.
>
> Actually, understanding what I just wrote requires only a basic understanding of
> simple physics.

Actually, it has nothing to do with physics at all. It has to do with
the meaning of identity. It has to do with mutual exclusivity. It has
to do with leaving the realm of overblown rhetoric and entering the
realm of the practical and testable.

>>Not truth.
>>
> It seems you have no ability to discern the truth.

It doesn't seem, it's fact, that Andrew makes claims and casts
aspersions he can't support.

Bob

Relevant Pages

  • Re: How to Become a Christian, Version 1.01
    ... >> Speaking as one who is well versed in physics, ... It's not about rocks or force or frame of reference. ... with God all things are possible. ...
    (sci.med)
  • Re: How to Become a Christian, Version 1.01
    ... >> Speaking as one who is well versed in physics, ... It's not about rocks or force or frame of reference. ... with God all things are possible. ...
    (sci.med.cardiology)
  • Re: How to Become a Christian, Version 1.01
    ... >>that god can make a rock too heavy to lift and lift it. ... Andrew misses the entire point to create his own irrelevant ... It's not about rocks or force or frame of reference. ...
    (sci.med.cardiology)
  • Re: Evolution means people werent planned.
    ... the only cunning design was the claim that the speed of light is ... the same in all frames of reference. ... it was cunningly designed that way by God :-). ... time frame, so that he can answer our prayers (in whatever manner he sees ...
    (uk.religion.christian)
  • Re: this is the time to pray
    ... > Even if such an entity existed it could not communicate ... > with us for as you stated God is outside our personal ... > frame of reference. ... reference, that's just plain silly. ...
    (alt.lang.asm)
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