Re: VITAMIN E CAN KILL

From: Peter Moran (moringa_at_gil.com.au)
Date: 11/12/04 

Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 06:44:45 +1000

"GMCarter" <fiar@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:sl79p0p925s4ov1qup349jn7vhk5mm615j@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 07:08:20 GMT, usenet@mantra.com (Dr. Jai Maharaj)
> wrote:
>
>>Vitamin E can kill
>>
>>Washington (ANI) - Taking Vitamin E health supplements in
>>excess can be a health hazard rather than a benefit,
>>according to researchers at Johns Hopkins University use
>>of high-dose vitamin E supplements, in excess of 400 IU
>>(international units), is associated with a higher
>>overall risk of dying.
>
> Well, this is spinning modest data that suggest a possible risk and
> turning it into hysteria. Below is my response to another, less
> polemical review of the meta-analysis the Hopkins group undertook.
>
> On 10 Nov 2004 21:29:53 GMT, markd@toad-net.com wrote:
>
>>
>>I fear your view of "bad" doesn't match the principle study, a closer
>>reading finds:
>
> snipped review of most relevant study--
>> The supplement biz is a 15,000,000,000 dallor a year biz
>>and the pharma companies are as eager to make money as the next. One
>>wouldn't be surprised if the proffit margin greater with the supplement
>>biz.
>
> This is true. Indeed, one of the biggest manufacturers is
> Hoffmann-LaRoche. What was more interesting to me was:
>
> "He says there are several theories about why vitamin E increases
> risk.
> One theory is that it increases bleeding risk, which would increase
> the risk of a type of stroke, while another theory suggests that at
> high doses vitamin E stops working like an antioxidant, removing
> harmful molecules in the body, and instead becomes a pro-oxidant,
> actually promoting the production of harmful molecules.
>
> Still another scenario suggests that high doses of vitamin E tend to
> wipe out other antioxidants, which disrupts the body's natural
> antioxidant protection system."
>
> This gets more to the issue, I think. These data are not dissimilar
> from the findings of the dangers of beta carotene.
>
> Well, I think that makes sense. Anyone who knows even the most general
> science of oxidative stress will realize that these individual agents
> work as antioxidants for a specific oxdiant. They then must be reduced
> by another antioxidant. So they work in tight knit cycles.
>
> Thinking in the framework of "one drug for one condition" (let alone a
> bug/infectious disease) in this context is really moronically stupid.
> And it is little wonder that people who take high dose Vitamin E or
> beta carotene fare poorly. Indeed, it's rather suprising to me that
> the increased mortality risk is so low!
>
> By contrast, using an array of antioxidants makes MUCH more sense. A
> case in point is the studies of beta carotene in HIV disease, some
> studies for preventing mother-to-child transmission. In those studies,
> no benefit was found. No surprise. However, recent studies of the use
> of a MULTIVITAMIN showed much better effect. Indeed, HIV disease
> progression was slowed by 30%.
>
> That's because you get a full array of the elements of the oxidative
> stress cycles that provide a balance: vitamins A, C, E, the B
> vitamins, selenium, zinc. A good potent multi I think is an important
> cornerstone of therapy. One might add to that agents like NAC, alpha
> lipoic acid and other enhancers of glutathione, catalase and the SODs.
>
> And don't forget that both the vitamins A and E used are a restricted
> chemical whereas in nature, one consumes a variety of carotenoids,
> tocopherols and tocopheryls.
>
> Indeed. Don't just take Vitamin E. Just take a good quality, decently
> potent multi if you wish to supplement.

But a metanalysis of all the studies on multivitamins would reveal a similar
somewhat confused picture to that which exists for single vitamins i.e.
inconsistent benefits and even hints of harm.

Why not advocate a better diet? That fits your theory of synergistic
benefits from micronutrients. It is better supported in clinical studies.
It provides additional nutrients known to help prevent illness, and may
also supply yet unkown ones.

Peter Moran

>
> George M. Carter
>

Relevant Pages

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