Re: How to Become a Christian, Version 1.01

From: Steve the Sauropodman (chandler2368_at_hotmail.com)
Date: 11/23/04 

Date: 23 Nov 2004 06:59:28 -0800

"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <andrew@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message news:<1101138073.YNan6Un9tAhFpMuc6Su80w@teranews>...
> Steve the Sauropodman wrote:
> >
> > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <andrew@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message news:<1100903227.ThjUM2scy3oWAgPYKpFDgA@teranews>...
> > > Steve the Sauropodman wrote:
> > >
> > > > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <andrew@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message news:<1100821842.rg2xHUbv7drqCiBZJPa3mw@teranews>...
> > > > > Hawki63 wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > >Subject: Re: How to Become a Christian, Version 1.01
> > > > > > >From: "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" andrew@heartmdphd.com
> > > > > > >Date: 11/18/2004 11:09 AM Pacific Standard Time
> > > > > > >Message-id: <1100804944.y7hH0YhY1XwnLzw+5XgW5Q@teranews>
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > <snipped once more for brevity>
> >
> > Your response is both quite predictable , and more than aptly supports
> > the assertions in my previous post.
>
> Your snipping my response suggests otherwise.
>
> > Bob Myers' reply is particularly
> > succinct.
>
> Succinctly untrue.

How flippant. But that is the least I would expect from any
fundamental religionist.

>
> > Rec. food.cooking is a discussion area for food related,
> > and fundamentalist horn-blowing is entirely inappropriate.
>
> If that is your judgment, then why are you responding to my post in a
> thread whose subject is clearly off-topic ?

It is an observation that has been expressed by myself and others.

> > I am
> > particularly surprised, that one presumably educated in the modern
> > life sciences should hold such a narrow-minded worldview.
>
> All true scientists seek the truth and adhere to it when they find it.

How true, and they don't bury themselves in religious cant, or seek to
explain the world around them with appeals to divine authority, or
divine punishment.

 
> > But then
> > logic, rationality, open-mindedness, and constructive debate have
> > never been the forte of any fundamentaist religious group, regardless
> > of their foundational belief system.
 
> Truth is the forte of those who walk with Christ.

See previous comment.

 
> Those who discern the truth are masters of logic, rationality,
> open-mindedness and debate. That should be clearly evident in this
> ever-growing thread.

Religious fundamentalismreligion is most certainly not based upon
logic, rationality, or open-mindedness. In fact, just the opposite.
In both the past and the present, those that disagree with entrenched
religious beliefs have been ostracized, villified, punished or even
killed.
  
>
> > Playing with the semantics of my post, as your reply atempts, does
> > little to bolster your position. Your postings are still unwarrented
> > in this group. I could ask how you deemed that r.f.c was "chosen" -
> > but I'm not interested if some supernatural componant comprises all or
> > part of the explaination.
>
> You must be a member of one of those fundamentalist religious groups who
> lack open-mindedness since it seems you are not interested in the truth.

I do believe that I clearly stated that I am an atheist. I do not
believe in the supernatural. I am a scientist, and the search for
knowledge, or "truth" has always been paramount. To descend into
superstition should be repugnant to any open-minded individual.

 
> Would suggest you would be wiser to seek the truth.

I am not the one embracing an early medieval version, of ancient
Middle Eastern myths.

> > The supernatural simply and plainly does
> > not exist.
>
> Perhaps you should open your eyes and look around.

I have - hence my conclusions on the supernatural.

>
> > It is not so much that the thread, in and of itself,
> > offends me, rather it is the contextual framework that I find both
> > morally and intellectually offensively. There are millions of good,
> > decent, moral people who are not fundamentalist Christians - who
> > embrace other faiths, are agnostics, or like myself atheists. To
> > suggest that Christian biblical literalists are somehow superior, or
> > possess some uniquely gifted relationship with God, or Jesus is
> > isolationist bigotry. THAT is what offends me. Not the alleged words
> > God, or Jesus.
>
> It seems that the truth offends you.

Do you read for comprehension?
  
> > As for the unfortunate Theon, his council may have been unwise in your
> > opinion, but it was the Christian community that sexually humiliated,
> > tortures and murdered a brilliant mathematician, philosopher and
> > astronomer because her beliefs differed, and her Platonist scientific
> > observations ran counter to the misogynistic, superstitious nonsense
> > of the mob.
>
> Again, it would be my choice to refrain from judging others especially
> if they are in another time period.

I see - judging others in the present, with your doom-saying, and
warning or hell-fire and brimstone if much more appealing.

>
>
> > Cheers
> >
> > "Through clever and constant application of propaganda people can be
> > made to see paradise as hell, and also the other way round. To
> > consider the most wretched sort of life as paradise."
> > Adolf Hitler
>
> Such would be the thoughts of someone who has lost faith in the truth.
>
> It is written in Ephesians 2:
>
> 10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good
> works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
>
> All is a waste of time until you find the way to eternal life with the
> Creator of the universe. When you do, there is no waste of time because
> there will be an infinite amount of it. Walking about aimlessly
> thinking it is *your* time, *your* money, *your* lot, *your* labor,
> *your* profit, and *your* power that you are using is tantamount to
> self-worship.
>
> For Christ lights up the way through John 14:
>
> 6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes
> to the Father except through me..."
>
> This bring us back again to the following very simple decision tree for
> the untruthful folks such as yourself, Steve, who have chosen to walk in
> the "dark":
>
> (1) Accept Christ.
> Risk: Nothing.
>
> Benefits: Salvation, purposeful life, eternal life, unimaginable riches
> in God's eternal kingdom.
>
> (2) Reject Christ.
> Risk: Eternal separation from God. Eternal torment of your soul by
> satan.
>
> Benefits: Nothing.
>
> Again, one has to conclude that those (ie you, Carey, Bob, Zee, Frank,
> Hawki, Rolando, Don et al) who would reject Christ have not thought out
> their decision *logically*.
>
> Would suggest you cast a glance at Bob Pastorio as a special example of
> untruthfully eloquent self-worship (BTW, Bob remains in my prayers out
> of Christian love) who is being driven to madness by my ignoring him
> (http://makeashorterlink.com/?V29A236C9 and more recently
> http://makeashorterlink.com/?W3D612CC9). All this power belongs to God
> who has judged Bob Pastorio with His Word
> (http://makeashorterlink.com/?G33F51E69). All praises to Him, Whom I
> love with all my heart, soul, mind, and strength :-)
>
> You will be in my prayers, dear Steve whom I love, in Christ's holy
> name.
>
> May you accept Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, someday, so that
> you too will escape satan's rule and torment of your soul after you die.
>
> Please do consider the OP as your logic should dictate before it is too
> late:
>
> http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
>
> (Please note that God truly made this special link describing that He is
> the great "I am" and that His message is as simple as the number 2 which
> is a number between 1 to 9 and reminds us of His 2 commandments, the 2
> arms of the cross, the 2nd part of the Trinity, the 2 finger sign of the
> Prince of Peace [who remains *V*ictorious over death and satan], and the
> 2PD Approach. Let it not ever be written that Christ did not make His
> presence known here on Usenet :-)
>
>
> Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
>
> Andrew

I've snipped the rest because I wouldn't want anyone to misconstrue
that you might consciusly or unconsciously be engaging is self-worship
- you know - by incessantly listing your qualifications, and
certifications.

If anyone is lost it is you Andrew. Cocooned in your fundamentalist
worldview, impervious to rationality; pompously dismissive of those
who challenge or disagree with your opinions, and so terrified of the
real world that your only refuge is to abandon reason and live in a
psychic construct where burning bushes can speak; imps, demons and
devils twirl their beards and moustaches and lure innocents to their
eternal doom; non-existant global floods, and talking snakes that lure
young naked women into eating apples (hmmmm...big snake,naked woman,
seduction into 'evil-doing' - WOW Freud would have a field day with
that symbolism!!!).

If I have one hope - and granted not much - it is that YOU wake up one
day and see the world for what it is. An essentially, good place,
filled with decent, reasonable people who live their live, love
others, work, sing, dance, have the occassional one-too-many, do great
things, occassionally screw up royally, raise a family if the choose,
paint a picture, paint the porch, walk the dog, burn a hamburger or
two, make slow love on a lazy afternoon, and have kinky sex now and
then for some spice. That is the world, Andrew, a knowable place,
where ther is more sanctity in a child's wonder at a star-filled night
sky than in all your "Hosannahs and "Praise Jesus". Yes, a world that
has its share of dangers, and evil people - but a world free of
demons, boogeymen and devils reeking of brimstone. I feel
particularly sad for you Andrew. Your all-consumming fundamentalism
leaves no room for inquiry, debate, but mostly it leave little room
for humanity. For to be truly humane requires an open heart and an
open mind, and you have clearly demonstrated that yo have neither.
Condescending pronouncements of pity towards those who do not share
your beliefs is extremely judgemental, and can be outright cruel (and
that's all they are, Andrew 'beliefs'..not 'truths'). And the
continual self-aggrandizing - biblical quotes, the unctous responses,
and the smarmy self-rightousness - well, if that's not self-worship I
don't know what is. It speakes of uncomfortable with themselves and
the world. I'm glad I don't live in your world, Andrew. I would be
terrified of a Universe where reason, logic, and sanity did not
prevail. Where the rules worked only for a chosen few who embrace a
particular relilgious philosophy. For the rest, we must fend for
ourselves in a nightmarish malestrom of supernatural entities, eternal
damnation, demonic possessions. And all is overseen by a god who
would help one of the faithful find their misplaced car keys, but not
raise a divine hand for a 12 year old Bosnian girl being gang-raped by
Serbian soldier hell-bent on ethnic cleansing.

It is you who are lost, Andrew.

(Insert vapid fundamentalist response here)

Cheers

"I have never met a man so ignorant that I could not learn something
from him."
                                                   Galileo Galilei