Re: Graves gets it wrong

From: George Graves (gmgravesnos_at_pacbell.net)
Date: 02/24/05 

Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 22:33:02 GMT

In article <1gsgyba.la7xoh10bvlm2N%wduke@sympatico.ca>,
 wduke@sympatico.ca (Managed Resistance) wrote:

> George Graves <gmgravesnos@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>
> > >
> > > Is it not true that most fascists tend to lean more toward a socialist
> > > or communist slant?
> >
> > No. They tend toward dictatorships, which are about control. That means
> > that economically they are likely to nationalize many businesses, which
> > is a characteristic that they share with the ultra-left which also tends
> > toward dictatorships and other forms of totalitarianism which likewise
> > tend to nationalize businesses, which, although for a different
> > "ideological" or "economic" reason, amounts to the same thing. It just
> > shows that too much of anything is bad.
>
> Huh? You argued my statement by reiterating everything that I said!
> I said that most fascists lean toward socialism or communism. Last
> time I checked, you couldn't go much further left than in a heavily
> socialist or communist state.
>
> Smoke a little too much crack tonight?
>
> You tell me that I am wrong, then you proceed to say the same thing that
> I said. Ah well, takes all kinds...

Reading comprehension not your long suit, I see. My point is not that "
Is it not true that most fascists tend to lean more toward a socialist
or communist slant" as you said, but that Soviet-style Communism and
Fascism lean towards TOTALITARIANISM and I gave examples.

> > > Fascists, typically, are neither progressive or conservative. Fascists
> > > are self-serving. Fascists manipulate and deceive people into
> > > believing that their way is the *best* way and, therefore, the *only*
> > > way.
> >
> > And Communists don't?
>
> I don't know why I'm wasting my time even responding to you. You
> appear to be a total idiot!

You would think so, since you obviously have no idea of what you are
talking about. You throw labels like Communist, and Socialist, and
Fascist around while clearly not understanding what they mean. No wonder
you don't 'get' my points

> Did I not say that the typical fascist tends to be either socialist or
> communist?
>
> Josef Stalin was a fascist dictator. He was also a communist!

Stalin was a Fascist? That would be a little difficult because, you see,
Fascism is diametrically opposed to Soviet Communism.

> Adolf Hitler was a fascist dictator. He was also a socialist!

Hitler was a Socialist? Why do you say that, because he called his party
'National Socialists'? Do you have any idea about what these ideological
labels that you are so blithely tossing around even mean or even how
they relate to one another? I didn't think so.

> Wow!
>
> I really cannot believe that I'm wasting my time responding to you!
> > >
> > > Fascists never offer or allow alternatives.
> >
> > And Communists do?
> >
> > > Do these fascist hallmarks suggest a conservative nature? I don't
> > > believe so!
> >
> > They are the ultimate right-wingers. You seem to miss the point that
> > Fascism, like Communism, consists of more than just a set of ideological
> > dogmas. There are other things involved too such as economic and
> > militaristic considerations.
>
> I'm struggling to find an example of one fascist dictator that was not
> either a socialist or a communist.
>
> I can't think of any!

I don't doubt it. You'd have to understand what these ideologies
actually entail before you could differentiate between them. Something
that you have amply illustrated that you don't have clue one about.

First of all, try Franco or Mussolini in your Herculean effort to find a
Fascist dictator who was not a socialist. It's not like it's that
difficult.

Second of all, a Communist is NOT a Fascist. Neither is a Socialist.
Just because Hitler called his form of Fascism, 'National Socialism'
doesn't mean that there was any actual classic socialism involved.

I think I understand where you are coming from now. You have no idea of
what any of these political or economic ideologies actually mean, so you
throw them around interchangeably. I, on the other hand, do know what
they mean and know that they cannot be used interchangeably. Therefore
we end up arguing at cross purposes.

Let's just drop the whole thing. I'm not going to teach you about
dialectical materialism and planned versus free market economies just so
that you won't confuse a Fascist with a Communist or a Socialist while
calling me an idiot in the process. Not a very equitable deal. Bye now. 

-- 
George Graves
------------------
"Windows sucks. There's no doubt about it."
Bill Gates - CES-2005, Las Vegas, Nevada

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