Re: Avian Flu and "The Black Death" of the Middle Ages

>This is a description from 1348

>"... it began with swellings in the groin and armpit, in both men and women,
>some of which were as big as apples and some of which were shaped like eggs,
>some were small and others were large; the common people called these
>swellings gavoccioli.

Merely one written account from one area experiencing a Plague. It
does in no way represent every Plague occuring prior or subsequent,
especialy in other areas of Europe.

>Filoviral Marburg and Ebola infections are severe hemorrhagic fevers. Damage
>to blood clotting and vessel permeability are the most prominent clinical
>features in humans. In fatal Marburg and Ebola infections, humans and
>monkeys generally die with no evidence of an immune response; however,
>details of immune system damage are poorly investigated [Peters et al.,
>1996].

ummm...I'm not sure about the accuracy of this source. Death from
Hemorrhagic Fevors is normaly caused by "Cytokine Storm", or
over-responce of the Immune system. BTW, this is also the main cause
of death in Flu Pandemics. You should read up a bit more on Flu
Pandemics in general since the pandemic of 1918 had symptoms not in
anyway connected with the normal yearly Flu we are all familiar with.

>Any descriptions that can be similar to the 1348 account?

Faulty Logic, you are assuming one description covers hundreds of years
of waves of Plauge. I am not denying that said source was not a
description of Bubonic Plauge, merely informing you one description
does not represent every Plague.

>I would imagine anyone who died at the time was labeled with dying from the
>black death but that does not negate that a large epidemic had not taken
>place.

I never implied it wasn't. You do realize the Flu is the deadliest
disease known to man, don't you?

>The flu does not resemble the black death except probably some form of
>pneumonic which is still pushing it.

I used to think the same thing before I saw a doccumentary on "The Bird
Flu" in which they had a segment on the 1918 pandemic. An
epidemiologist interviewed clearly said that any Flu pandemic we face
with the Bird Flu may have symptoms not indicative of the yearly flu.
She went on to say that we knew this because the symptoms of the 1918
pandemic included:

Swelling of the Body
Blackening of the skin
Bleeding from the eye, ears, mouth, & nose (coughing up blood as well)
Contortions of the Body

Compare this infor to my original post where the scientist in question
said in his opinion that the symptoms of "the Black Death" were most
identical to Hemorrhagic Fevers.

>There's been many pandemic flu outbreaks and they don't resemble the black
>death. Sorry.

Once again, you seem to be stuck on the symptoms of one particuliar
pathogen. There have been Flu Pandemics where the symptoms have been
extremely close to the ones described in "The Black Death". I have
already informed you of the 1918 Pandemic and the symptoms associated
with that particuliar strain.

>The population of the earth was almost wiped out and not ordinary typical
>deaths.

Yes and the speed of it's travel is one of the problems that
epidemiologists have not, IMO, properly addressed. Fast traveling
diseases, such as those in "The Black Death", are most often caused by
Viral Pathogens and not Bacterial ones. I could go on and on with this
but I feel that no matter what I write, no information will sway you
into admitting something that even the experts in this field have told
me, that there is still doubt as to the true pathogen responsible for
"The Black Death".

>No problem as it makes good talk at parties just as saying that HIV does not
>cause AIDS.

At least we have samples from the infected to prove that said pathogen
was in fact present. How many samples do we have from victims of "The
Black Death"?

-Jason

.

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