Re: Understanding the HUP


Ranando King wrote:
> "Y.Porat" <maporat@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:1124900497.234302.181410@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > i said
> > you can bypass the HUP by *other experimental data
> >
> > and i bring the Deuteron case:
> >
> > > but then comes the 'Grey stuff' in your had and filters nonsense
> > possibilities
> > and you get the Right answer
> > i call it ;
> > 'to see with the power of thinking!! (and additional knowledge )
> > if you dont have it
> > you remain a parrot forever.
> >
> > ATB
> > Y.Porat
> > ------------------------------
>
>
> Seeing as how you're not trying to determine the relative positions and
> momentum of the nucleons in a deuteron atom, I don't see any problems. Then

there is an expert for the HUP called Feuerbacher
who does see a problem with that can imagine his argument that

since the sizes of the deuteron nuc are so small
you can never measure it at all
so if not to measure you cant be sure (verify) anything!!
yet about that 'anything'

that is the main 'battle ' between me and him

because he claimed that my model that maps
all the nuclei of the periodic table
is 'dead by arrival' according the HUP .

so the dispute is not with me but with that expert]

so i brought the deuteron example just as the simplest case
to show that we can still know a lot!! about the nuclei
as i did by introducing a whole map of all the periodic table
that is not with any length scale but only
RELATIVE LOCATION of the sub particles
and all that is by bypassing the HUP by other knowledge
and thinking.
like excluding unreasonable possibilities as
the possibility that the proton and deuteron will be
one inside the other......which seems to be the only
'other possibility!!
---
that indeed there is nothing like that anywhere!!
---------

> again, I also don't see how this is a violation of the HUP. Any one property

see above
--
> (say position) can be measured with arbitrary accuracy without incurring any
> Heisenberg penalties.

at the small size of the deuteron you cannot speak about any accuracy
at all or may be not even any measuring??

>
> However...
>
> The shape of a deuteron atom is not so easily determined as you would seem

we can say it is side by side sub particles
and that is a goo enough knowledge to say.....
and if so ........ you fill it in .......(:-)
---------------
> to want to believe, and the HUP has little or nothing to do with it. The
not all along 'nothing to do !!

> real problem is in determining the shapes of the neutron and proton
> comprising the deuteron nucleus. Experiments have shown that protons aren't
> always spherical.

what are those experiments
too little scientists know it !!

If the quark conjecture is correct, then the same would be
> true of neutrons. This would mean you've got 6 particles to consider instead
> of 2 in order to determine the shape of the deuteron atom.

agree with you
see my 'chain of orbitals' in my site.so i am the last one on this
world that you have to tell him about that .....
>

ATB
Y.Porat
-------------------
> R.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Understanding the HUP
    ... > you can bypass the HUP by *other experimental data ... > the size of the deuteron is so small that you can never tell ... > but if you are not a parrot and start thinking ...
    (sci.physics.particle)
  • Re: Deuteron
    ... Deuteron in seine Bestandteile zu zerlegen. ... Die minimale Massensumme wäre 1 Proton und ein H_Atom. ... das Deuteron ist nämlich auch nur der Kern ohne Elektron ... dran, also sind es -3,5 m_e bzw. ca. 2 MeV. ...
    (de.sci.physik)
  • Re: Deuteron
    ... Deuteron in seine Bestandteile zu zerlegen. ... das Deuteron ist nämlich auch nur der Kern ohne Elektron ... Ein Deuteron kann zusammengesetzt gedacht werden aus einem Neutron und einem Proton. ...
    (de.sci.physik)
  • Re: question about atoms
    ... The neutron and proton will combine if they are ... The electron will bind to the proton (or the deuteron) if it can lose ...
    (sci.physics)
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