Re: non relativist / non aetherist reply

From: Androcles (androc1es_at_nospamblueyonder.co.uk)
Date: 06/11/04 

Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:01:28 GMT

"Oriel36" <geraldkelleher@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:273f8e06.0406110531.5c52d951@posting.google.com...
| "Androcles" <androc1es@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:<RQYxc.616$bd1.5438481@news-text.cableinet.net>...
| > "Oriel36" <geraldkelleher@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| > news:273f8e06.0406090354.97b5193@posting.google.com...
| > | "Androcles" <androc1es@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
| > news:<9kxxc.1755$q73.15898747@news-text.cableinet.net>...
| > | > "Mike" <eleatis@yahoo.gr> wrote in message
| > | > news:ca4g9e$m8$1@usenet.otenet.gr...
| > | > |
| > | > | "Oriel36" <geraldkelleher@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| > | > | news:273f8e06.0406080445.8e5d360@posting.google.com...
| > | > |
| > | > | [snip]
| > | > |
| > | > | >
| > | > | > Newton,borrowing on Flamsteed, incorrectly operated on the
principle
| > | > | > that heliocentric coordinates are equivalent to geocentric
| > coordinates
| > | > | > and set in motion the shift away from pure astronomy to the
'laws of
| > | > | > physics'.
| > | > |
| > | > | [snip]
| > | > |
| > | > | Is the above a criticism and if it is, do you have a alternative
or
| > would
| > | > | like to pinpoint exactly where the error was from the transition
from
| > | > | kinematics to dynamics in MN?
| > | > |
| > | > | I tell you, it's very easy to talk generalities but hard , very
hard,
| > to
| > | > | offer an alternative foundation to ground physical laws. It is
indeed
| > so
| > | > | hard that it only makes sense to dismiss any such statements are
| > mental
| > | > | garbage unless they are supported by rigid laws that offer
| > quantitative
| > | > | predictions whilst alluding to a solid foundation.
| > | > |
| > | > | Can you? If not, spare the details.
| > | > |
| > | > | Mike
| > |
| > |
| > | Why Kelleher
| > | > doesn't understand Orion is now in the daytime sky (in summer) will
| > forever
| > | > remain a mystery, I suppose.
| > | > Androcles.
| > |
| > | Orion is a constellation,a figment of man's imagination and ultimately
| > | useless in progressing to consideration of stellar rotation around the
| > | Milky Way axis.It appears that you have trouble with the Earth's
| > | orbital direction and how the orientation of the daylight/darkness
| > | line changes in accordance with Kepler's second law.
| > |
| > | http://www.mhhe.com/physsci/astronomy/fix/student/images/04f15.jpg
| >
| > | Apply constant axial rotation within the above graphic and you have
| > | the real reason for the necessity of th Equation of Time as the Earth
| > | axially rotates to face the Sun/Earth line through 360 degrees of
| > | rotation.
| > |
| > | The daylight/darkness line is a property of orbital motion remaining
| > | always tangential to the Sun/Earth line -
| >
| >
| > See what I mean?
| > When the planet rotates 360 degrees to face the sun once again at A, it
also
| > moves to G and is no longer facing the sun.
| >
| > | http://www.users.muohio.edu/primacag/images/earth%20from%20space.gif
| > See what I mean?
|
| The arrows reflect the Earth's orbital orientation to the Sun and
| demonstrate how the daylight/darkness line changes its orientation in
| accordance with Kepler's second law.
|
| Recognise that the direction of the Earth's orbital motion at dawn (as
| the Earth axially rotates out of its orbital shadow) and you will
| never think in terms of 'sunrise' again nor any perceived motion of
| the Sun.
I have never "thought" of sunrise or sunset other than a local phenomenon,
since watching the sun go down over the Indian Ocean and thinking of it
rising on a loved one on the American continent, and *realizing* the west
coast of Africa was at the top of a hill. Not just reading that in a book,
but experiencing it first hand.

|
|
|
|
| > When the planet moves 360 degrees to face the sun once again at A, it
also
| > shows phases like Venus. The terminator will soon vanish.
| >
| >
| > | http://www.museum.vic.gov.au/scidiscovery/images/mn000779_w150.gif
| > |
| > | The distant stars are useful in determining the orbital direction of
| > | the Earth and from there move on to the next motion of the Earth
| > | around the galactic axis or it is useful in presenting the reference
| > | for the Equation of Time variation.
| > |
| > | Flamsteed,in his effort to reduce celestial motion to terrestial
| > | longitudinal coordinates foisted a celestial sphere on you,the
| > | 'curved space' of relativists is just a symptom of your odd stellar
| > | circumpolar universe insofar as Newton's geocentric/heliocentric
| > | equivalency was reduced to a homocentric indiscriminate one in the
| > | early 20th century.
| > |
| > | I don't fault you for being wrong Androcles,you just don't know any
| > | better.I did say that it does'nt matter whether you are for or against
| > | relativity,the sourse of the disease is back centuries ago.
| >
| > Our ideas of Heliocentrism, to which you still adhere, have moved on
since
| > Copernicus.
| > Androcles
|
| Naw,they went backwards from Flamsteed's false premise and method for
| determining constant axial.

I fail to see how you can call observation "false", or conservation of
angular momentum "false". You sound like Sirvent the Unscientific and his
"unphysical".

| From my own experience,I had always heard
| of Copernicus and to a lesser extent Kepler without ever really going
| outside and grasping the enormity of their insights,at least as a
| visual experience.

Then do it. Line up a star with a couple of posts and check it.
It will transit your posts 23 hours and 56 minutes later. Surely such a
simple experiment is something a child can do.
You won't need Flamsteed, Newton or Copernicus to do that.
A modern wristwatch is accurate enough for 4 minutes a day.

| Even if I take nothing away from attempting to
| introduce orbital orientation through the daylight/darkness line which
| does Not follow axial coordinates and thereby drawing attension away
| from the stellar circumpolar framework,I could not do justice to those
| astronomers , their meticulous observations and their insights

Meticulous then, because clocks had only just become accurate enough to do
it, but simple today. Heck, for about £400 you can buy a computer driven
telescope, and it WILL have the sidereal day programmed into it.
If not, take it back to the store where you bought it and ask for your money
back.

|
| If you are prepared to ignore 'sunrise' and consider that the
| division between darkness and light points in the general (it can be
| calculated precisely) direction of the Earth's orbital motion as the
| Earth axially rotates out of its orbital shadow you may be initially
| disorientated by the unfamiliarity but therein lies something that
| Galileo experienced,you will see what I mean.
|
| http://www.mhhe.com/physsci/astronomy/fix/student/images/04f15.jpg

What you "mean" is the Earth rotates 360 degrees in 24 hours and the
rest of the world knows that the Earth rotates 360 degrees in 23 hours and
56 minutes, relative to the stars. You should try to convince those that
spend their time looking at the stars, not the sun. You are going against
every astronomer that ever lived.
Here's an even better description of Kepler's equal area law:
 http://www.androc1es.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/SekerinTime.htm
(make sure you have animation turned on)
Androcles

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