Re: Experimental disproof of the theory of Relativity

From: Tom Roberts (tjroberts_at_lucent.com)
Date: 06/14/04 

Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 00:40:15 GMT

Ballisticus wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 16:11:12 GMT, Tom Roberts <tjroberts@lucent.com> wrote:
>>Ballisticus wrote:
>>>you cannot get away from the fact that light
>>>travels from point A to point B in 3D space.
>>>When it arrives at an observer, it exhibits 3D wave properties (eg, wavelength)
>>
>>Light certainly does so. Individual photons do not.
>
> Then what evidence is there that 'individual photons' actually exist?

There are LOTS of experiments that display photon interactions;
literally thousands of them (but I am not interested enough to look for
references). The photoelectric effect is the basis of numerous modern
technologies....

> My understanding is that QED is based on the notion that the wavelike structure
> of all EM is derived from some kind of phase 'synchonization' between a large
> number of individual photons. What does the velocity 'c' apply to, the photons
> or the phase?

Your "understanding" is wrong. Perhaps you should STUDY what QED
actually says before attempting to make claims about it.

The velocity c applies to the relationship of photon interactions when
separated over a large distance (as we say, for photons "on the mass
shell"). For large numbers of photons this can be interpreted as
"transport of light", and as "phase", etc....

>>>How many photons make a high energy gamma?
>>
>>One. For gammas photons are countable, even though you cannot count them
>>in a light ray. I repeat: this is far more subtle than most people
>>around here realize.
>
> So where does one draw the line?

There is no "line", there are just methods of measurement and
interpretations of them. For instance, a modern VLPC (Visible Light
Photon Counter) can indeed detect individual photons in the visible
region, with about 80% quantum efficiency (it must be cooled to liquid
Helium temperatures). And NaI crystals with phototubes can detect
individual gammas. But still you cannot count the photons in a light
ray.... (I repeat: QED is subtle...)

> When does EM become more than one photon?

Your question does not really make sense, but in some limited sense it
can be answered for large numbers: When one gets out of the quantum realm.

> If a gamma particle consists of only one photon, how can it possess a frequency
> that is not intrinsic to that photon?

Like all photons and light rays, the frequency is a RELATIONSHIP between
detector and photon/ray. For individual photons of any sort there is no
way to measure its "frequency", but one can often measure its energy,
and infer the frequency of a lot of them via E=hf.

> You see there are too many unanswered questions Tom.

Yes, I do. Before you can understand QED enough to answer them you must
STUDY. You will never learn this stuff by making random postings on the
net. I suggest starting with:

        Feynman, _QED_.

> The biggest one is how and why light emitted simultaneously from differently
> moving adjacent sources should reach a distant observer at the same instant.

The answer depends on your theoretical context:
  in SR/GR the "How" is: by following a null geodesic; this is
        really the geometrical optics approximation
  in QED the "How" is: over large distances the photon must be on
        the mass shell, and since photons are massless such
        interactions must be separated by a null interval in
        configuration space.

"Why" the universe is so constructed (or perhaps "appears to be so
constructed") is not a question for physics -- go see your Priest (or
Psychiatrist).

Tom Roberts tjroberts@lucent.com

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