Re: Does the Electron Neutrino Have Mass and Charge?
From: V ertner Vergon (vergon_enterprises_at_highstream.net)
Date: 06/30/04
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Date: 30 Jun 2004 13:21:33 -0700
dubious@radioactivex.lebesque-al.net (Bilge) wrote in message news:<slrncdt620.47k.dubious@radioactivex.lebesque-al.net>...
> V ertner Vergon:
> >dubious@radioactivex.lebesque-al.net (Bilge) wrote in message news:
>
> >> >The charge of the neutron is neutral because it consists of both
> >> >a proton and electron, so the charges neutralize each other.
> >>
> >> A neutron is not ``made'' of a proton and an electron.
> >Vergon:
> >
> >I just showed you where it is.
>
> No, you simply asserted it and exeriments disagree with you.
>
> >> >We have spin parity: 1/2 before the reaction and 3/2 afterward (as the
> >> >neutrino has a half spin).
> >>
> >> No. That isn't how that works.
> >
> >Vergon:
> >
> >Yes. that's how it works.
>
> No, it isn't. Your turn.
>
> >I don't know where you got all that crap you expound here.
>
> It's called simple vector addition.
>
> >
> > j_initial = 1/2 and j_final = 1/2
> >> j (the total angular momentum) is a vector, so the spin adds as a
> >> vector and there are two possibilities:
> >>
> >> The electron and neutrino are in an S = 0 singlet and added
> >> to the proton spin of 1/2, j_final = 0 + 1/2 = 1/2, which is
> >> a fermi decay. The other possibility is that the electron and
> >> neutrino spin add to get the S = 1 triplet state and the total adds
> >> anti-paralell to the proton spin, j_final = 1 - 1/2 = 1/2. That
> >> is a gamow-teller decay.
> >>
> >>
> >> >Question: If the neutrino is the left over after the proton and electron
> >> >are released, it must have a negative spin also. Why, then, is the
> >> >neutrino charge neutral and not negative?
> >>
> >> Spins can be aligned either parallel or anti-parallel:
> >>
> >> ^ ^ ^ ^ |
> >> | + | = | | + v = 0
> >> |
> >>
> >> Charge is not a vector.
> >>
> >Vergon:
> >
> >Who said it was?
>
> Well, you were trying to add angular momentum the same way you added
> charge, so it certainly appeared as if you did.
>
> >> >Note. We see here why a *free* neutron decays when in the free state.
> >>
> >> A free neutron decays for the same reason any other decay occurs:
> >> because it can.
> >
> >Vergon:
> >
> >Now THERE'S an answer.
>
> At least you understood one answer.
>
> [...]
> >> simplifid picture and the full picture requires including the weak
> >> interaction as well. That provides a somewhat superficial reason
> >> that the proton and electron charge cancel exactly, really only
> >> changes the question somewhat. A complete answer is not known.
> >
> >Vergon:
> >
> >I have the answer but cannot show it in ASCII.
> >
> >Send me your email address and I will email it to you in an attachment.
>
> Show it in ascii. First, I don't do attachments. Second, I don't do
> windows, so it's unlikely I can read it anyway. Third, if it was written
> so that I could read it, then you should have the original TeX document,
> which is ascii, in which case, you can post the ascii and I'll have no
> difficulty reading it. Fourth, I'm not interested in sending out my
> email address. Fifth, I rarely read email, so it's unlikely I'd see
> it for months anyway.
Vergon:
Please understand this grows out of my theory. Parts one may question
they can check for themself. The rest must be accepted on faith until
one reads the theory itself. I don't think
there's much here not already known.
The following scenario holds notwithstanding approximations:
We are answering the following question:
Why are the charges on the electron and proton equal (though opposite)
despite
a huge disparity in mass?
I use the Bohr magnaton as the magnetic moment of the electron ---
mu_B
The angular momentum is
--------------------------------------------------- IW
_
The electron charge is in electrostatic units (e.s.u,)
------------------- q
+
The proton charge -----------------------------------------------------------
q
The proton magnetic moment is the nuclear magnetic moment-------
mu_N
The modular momentum of the electron
*--------------------------------- p_e or m_e c
The modular momentum of the proton
*------------------------------------ p_N or m_pr c
* Modular momentum is (particle mass * c) or
(mu * m-q)
where m-q is 7.3720385 x 10^-48 gr. , the mass of each element of
frequency, mu.
Or: h/diameter of particle ( the diameter is 1LS/frequency --
(LS = light second)
.....................................................................
We now investigate the relationship between these parameters.
First, we note that for the electron, mu_B and IW are angular
forces.
_ +
and q and p are linear momenta.
Here are the relations:
9.274670 x
10^-21 4.803618 x 10^-10
/\ _
forces
mu_B
/| \ q
|
|
|
5.684873 x 10^-8 sec
|
|
|
momenta IW
\|/ p_e
\/
5.272533 x
10^-28 2.730796 x 10^-17
|<----- 5.179287 x 10^10 ----->|
We note that force * time = momentum,
_
and mu_B q
--------- :: -------
IW p_e
And we also note that the ratio of the forces and the ratio of the
momenta are equal:
mu_B IW
--------- :: -------
q p_e
Thus we see the magnetic moment as the force created by angular
momentum,
and electric charge as the force created by modular momentum.
We now display the momenta and charges in terms of their physical
constants:
(where e is coulomb charge)
_
h q
e |c|
------------
---------
4 pi
m_e c 10
9.274670 x
10^-21 4.803618 x 10^-10
_
angular forces
mu_B | q
|
|
|
5.684873 x 10^10-8 sec
|
|
|
momenta IW
| p_e
5.272533 x
10^-28 2.730796x10^-17
|--- 5.179287 x 10^10 -----|
h h
----- ------
4 pi D_e
(electron diameter --
Light Second/frequency )
>From the rules of proportionality we obtain:
_
q IW
mu_B = ---------- = 9.274671
x 10^-21
p_e
This is the relationship for the electron. We now ask, what is the
relationship
for the proton and calculate mu_N, proton magnetic moment.
We do this by substituting the proton mass (in the modular momentum)
in place of that of the electron:
+ +
q IW q IW
mu_N = --------- = ----------- =
5.050825 x 10^-24
p_N m_N c
+
q h
By the standard model, mu_N is given as -------------------- .
which yields the
4 pi m_p c
identical results.
REWRITING THE EQUATIONS ABOVE FOR THE CHARGES:
_ mu_B p_e
q = ------------------
IW
and
+ mu_N p_N
q = -----------------
IW
We now perceive the two charges as equal (though opposite).
IW is constant, and (mu_B p_e) is equal to (mu_N p_N)
We note that magnetic moment is *directly* proportional to the
diameter of the particles, while momentum is *inversely*
proportional.
Thus they offset each other and the result is equality.
Put another way, the magnetic moment is inversely proportional to the
mass,
while the modular momentum is directly proportional to the mass.
V. Vergon
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