Re: My clock refuses to obey SR's time dilation!

From: V ertner Vergon (vergon_enterprises_at_highstream.net)
Date: 07/06/04 

Date: 6 Jul 2004 06:58:49 -0700

Sam Wormley <swormley1@mchsi.com> wrote in message news:<40EA3CEB.4AFF7B94@mchsi.com>...
> Jim Greenfield wrote:
> >
> > "Keith Stein" <ks012a2355@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:<6c9Bc.107879$wd7.79965@front-1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>...
> > > Re: My clock refuses to obey SR's time dilation!
> > >
> >
> > So does mine!!
> >
> > Everyone has seen the diagrams which purport to explain SR time
> > dilation; where a ceiling bulb on a train sends a beam to a floor
> > morror, and returns. When the train is stationary, or to an observer
> > on the train, the light follows the vertical return path. To an
> > observer of the moving train, the path describes ON the BACKGROUND, a
> > V path. As light speed is assumed to be constant, the longer V is
> > claimed to prove time dilation (more time ellapsed for the light
> > journey).
> > However:
> > I built a few identical clocks, which moved a pencil in a slot from
> > top (bulb) to bottom (mirror) and return. The pencils always perform
> > the same motion, in the same "time" (velocity), and therefore,
> > describe on background (paper placed beneath them) the same lenght of
> > line in the same time. As this is a fixed operation per time on each
> > occasion, each is a "clock".
> > But I can consider this motion of the pencils, just a slowmo of light.
> > If I place them either by the railway line, or on the train, in the
> > vertical axis, they will perform the operation in synch. Now what
> > happens when I simultaneously start two of them, and move one on the x
> > axis at horizontal speed (say) 3/4 vertical speed of pencil (light)?
> > Both pencils arrive back at top simultaneously (= SAME TIME ELAPSED),
> > but the moving clock has produced a LONGER PATH.
> >
> > There IS NO time change due to motion

Vergon:

I think you missed the point. The arms of the V path determine the
length of the tick. With the stationary clock the arms of the "V" are
the same as the pencil motion -- with the moving clock the arms of the
V are longer. Since the speed of light is constant, this means a
longer "tick".

But -- the whole concept of time dilation as put forth by SR should be
disposed of.

Time dilation according to SR is -- where t' is proper time --
t = t' sqrt(1 - v^2/c^2). The important thing to note is that this
rate is supposed to happen in BOTH recession and approach situations.

Now we switch to empiricism. Astronomers observe moving clocks every
night.
Any known constant freqency is a clock. The cesium atom is an
arbitrary choice.

When a clock, so observed, is in the *approaching* mode it is running
*fast*
(Doppler).

Not only that, but the rate is different. It is Doppler rate.

This blows SR's time dilation right out of the water but supplants it
with Doppler time.

> >
> > If high school children were given these toys when "learning" SR, the
> > coming generation would bin SR in a minute, and be freed up to search
> > for something better.
> >
> > Jim G
>
> Relativistic Length Contraction
> http://www.physicsclassroom.com/mmedia/specrel/lc.html
> http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/gbssci/phys/mmedia/specrel/lc.html
>
> Length Contraction
> http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/relativ/tdil.html
> http://members.tripod.com/wmhxbigguy/Theory/length.html
>
> Muon Experiment
> http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/relativ/muon.html

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