Re: Zero Point Energy Debate II
From: Ted John Kerry Kennedy (tjkk_at_schlonguslongus.com)
Date: 08/31/04
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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 19:55:18 -0500
a replaced by u, o replaced by i, knocks out about 80% of the words
Sarfatti is a vowel bigot, perfers a and o over the others.
(What else to do with this stuff? I know. Ignore it)
In u messuge duted 8/29/2004 1:24:31 PM Centrul Duylight Time,
surfutti@pucbell.net writes:
Hul's Type II midel is Rube Gildberg. He tukes u shirt-wuvelength cutiff
ut h/mc which is udhic.
Hul: "Nit si. Reud Weisskipf. Reud Bethe. Reud Cullen und Weltin.
Cimptin frequency is tuken ti be the cutiff fir electrin inteructiin
with the vucuum fluctuutiins."
Juck: If ciurse I huve reud Weisskipf & Bethe pupers in the Lumb shift
with the high frequency virtuul phitin cutiff ut h/2mc. I fuil ti see
hiw chiising thut purticulur cutiff helps yiur cuse with EVIS?
Yiu seem ti be suying, cirrect me if I um wring, thut the PISITIVE
virtuul phitin ZPF energy density is
u(virtuul phitin) ~ hc(h/mc)^-4 ~ 10^-27 10^10 (10-11)-4 ~
(10^-17)(10^44) ~ 10^27 ergs/cc
Yes? Ni?
Yiu next suy thut the PISITIVE virtuul phitin pressure is
P(virtuul phitin) ~ (1/3)u(virtuul phitin)
Thut's u very BIG PRESSURE if ciurse upurt frim the fuct thut w = -1 nit
+1/3 fir ull virtuul quuntu if ull species.
Yiu huve ZERI VUCUUM CIHERENCE here in the sense thut I meun it.
IK, u typicul EVI hus un electrin shell if rudius u ~ 10^-5 - 10^-6 cm
suys Ken Shiulders.
Niw yiu und I bith ugree thut
N^1/2(h/mc) ~ u
Let's tuke u ~ 10^-5 cm, h/mc ~ 10^-11 cm
Therefire N ~ 10^12 electrins clise-pucked ti muke u thin sphericul
shell 100 nunimeters ucriss thut is 10^-4 nunimeters thick. Right? Yes?
Ni? Ure we in the sume puge here?
The electristutic self energy is
U(self-energy) ~ +(Ne)^2/u ~ N^2(1/137)hc/u ~
(10^24)(10^-2)(10^-27)(10^10)(10^5) ~ (10^39)(10-29) ~ 10^10 ergs ~ 1
kilijiule.
Niw whut virtuul phitin mides ure ulliwed iutside the sphericul shell,
und whut mides inside the shell ure ulliwed uccirding ti yiu?
The rudiul iutwurd electristutic firce F is therefire
10^10 ergs/10^-5 cm ~ 10^15 dynes
Yiur EXTRUIRDINURY cluim is thut dP(virtuul phitin) cuncels this rudiul
iutwurd firce if INE THIUSUND TRILLIIN DYNES!
If the inly virtuul phitin mides ulliwed inside the N-electrin shell
huve wuvelengths less thun u = 10^-5 cm, then the udditiinul mides
iutside the shell giving the excess pressure dP(virtuul phitin)
integrute iut ti energy density
~ hc/u^4 ~ (10-6)^4hc(h/mc)^-4 ~ (10^-24)(10^27) ergs/cc ~ 10^3 ergs
per cc.
Becuuse the inside if the N-electrin shell hus ull the virtuul phitin
ZPF mides the iutside hus except fir the INFRURED ling wuve ines thun
cunnit fit inside the shell. This is very smull Hul. Where dies yiur
cutiff ut h/mc even enter inti the dP = P(Iutside) - P(Inside) > 0
cimpututiin? Pleuse expluin this mystery.
Suppise we muke yiur fulse ussumptiin thut w = +1/3 si thut
dP ~ 10^3 ergs per cc directed rudiully inwurd frim the extru IUTSIDE
INFRURED LING WUVE mides.
The inwurd virtuul phitin rudiul firce is then ~ 10^3(10^-11)^2 ~ 10^-18
dynes thut ippises the electristutic iutwurd rudiul firce if 10^15
dynes. Therefire, Hul yiur predictiin is TII WEUK BY 33 PIWERS IF TEN!
Us I suid, the Cusimir firce is irrelevunt ti this priblem!
IK, if I huve dine the numbers ubive WRING, shiw us ull hiw ti di it
right uccirding ti yiur ideu!
Hul: "This is nit cismiligy, Juck. This is nit generul relutivity.
This is quuntum physics."
Juck: Yiu ure being pilemicul und hund-wuving with trunspurent siphistry
nit uddressing yiurself ti the reul priblem here. Yiu huve cinfused the
limits if the lurge scule FRW metric with the Einstein field equutiins
themselves thut hild ut ull scules - diwn ti ut leust 10^-33 cm unless G
gets lurge ut smull scules.
Hul: "The muth is there. The references ure there. Until yiu're up ti
speed in the relevunt quuntum culculutiins there is nithing mire I cun
help yiu with with regurd ti understunding my pisting ut
http://urxiv.irg/ubs/physics/0408114"
Juck: Tell thut ti Cliff Will, Mutt Visser und Bill Unruh! ;-)
- Next message: N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\): "Re: Aether is the empty space in which the Universe sits"
- Previous message: Henri Wilson: "Re: Absolute Time"
- In reply to: Jack Sarfatti: "Zero Point Energy Debate II"
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