Re: Quantum Paradox of a Self-Interference of a Photon in VLBI

From: Aleksandr Timofeev (a_n_timofeev_at_my-deja.com)
Date: 11/17/04 

Date: 17 Nov 2004 06:00:16 -0800

"Bill Hobba" <bhobba@rubbish.net.au> wrote in message news:<mHbld.33933$K7.1270@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
> "Aleksandr Timofeev" <a_n_timofeev@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:e16a4a22.0411090329.7627a19b@posting.google.com...
> > junebug@pgrb.com (Quantum Mirror) wrote in message
> news:<7b043f08.0411051606.44648469@posting.google.com>...
[snip]

> >
> > "Of course in a telescope one does not actually need to invoke
> > QM - classical EM will do just fine.
> > ========================================================
> > But as a matte of principle it too has QM as its basis -
> > just like all classical phenomena does."
> > ========================================================
> >
> > Dear "Quantum Mirror":
> >
> > You can see, that honest-minded Bill Hobba has pointed out
> > the concrete rough physical error in your reasons...:
>
> Nothing I said was in disagreement with what Quantum Mirror said -
> telescopes are not an experiment that demonstrates the self interference of
> photons. One needs very carefully designed experiments for that. I was
> simply ensuring it was understood what Quantum Mirror meant - he was not
> saying that ultimately it does not depend of QM - he was saying it was not
> an experiment that can be used to discuss self. interference of a photon.
>
> > Here we have the Key problem concerning to a theoretical physics:
> >
> > 1. "They bring as many photons as possible together"
> >
> > Please describe in detail this physical process at a quantum
> > level of comprehension of actual processes of interaction of
> > an electromagnetic radiation with substance, i.e. describe
> > process of detection of an electromagnetic radiation in
> > single VLBI radiometer.
>
> If it was an experimental setup where we have one photon in the apparatus
> then the explanation would be the photon, being in an eigenstate of
> momentum, can be considered a wave. However when we measure its position it
> will be found to be in a single detector. The process of detection that
> determines which detector it is found in is not specified in the theory that
> states it happens randomly. Thus you are asking a question QM specifically
> does not address ie is a meaningless ie the theory states is not determined
> by any more fundamental process - it is a fundamental process of the theory
> itself. Different interpretations have slightly different takes on all of
> this - my favorite conventional one is Consistent Quantum Histories -
> http://quantum.phys.cmu.edu/histories.html.
>
> You have been posting the same rot for ages and been given exactly the same
> answers yet keep on doing it.
>
> As Quantum Mirror says:
>
> Aleksandr Timofeev please seek psychological counseling from a trained
> psychologist

"Although

the interpretation of the experimental result was incorrect for a time,

the result itself remained quite robust through the theory change
from the old to the new <....> theory. It is important to remember
that experimental results do not change when accepted theory changes,
although certainly, as we have seen, their interpretation may change."
                           Allan Franklin
 
Are someone wrong in one's garret? >;^)))

Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
Supplement to Experiment in Physics

Appendix 5: Right Experiment, ----> Wrong Theory >;^)))

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/physics-experiment/app5.html

>
> I concur
>
> Bill

That allows to make the guess, that one is very probable,
that you are unduly self-confident...

So we both have strong supposition that one's garret unfurnished...

In VLBI a _correlator_ of streams of signals is a DIGITAL (numeral)
_correlator_ instead of physical addition of signals in the Young's
interferometer, i.e. a DIGITAL _correlator_ instead of physical
correlator!!!

There are NO _physical_ interference!!!

There are ONLY MATHEMATICAL interference!!!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Below I DISCUSS connection of The Bohr's complementarity principle
     with Fourier transforms for stationary quantum systems
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

. The microwave interferometer with superlong basis (VLBI). Part 2.
. ----------------------------------------------------------

                       VLBI EXPERIMENT - STEP ONE
                            data acquisition

. [videotape 1] [videotape 2]
. ^ ^
. | |
. [Detector 1] <- synchronized clocks -> [Detector 2]
. | |
. | |
. radio-telescope 1 radio-telescope 2
. Length of basis
. |<-------------------------- {snip} ------------------------>|
. /^\ /^\

.^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ {snip} ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
.| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
. Noise microwave radiation

                       VLBI EXPERIMENT - SECOND STEP
                             Data processing

. There are NO _physical_ interference!!!
. ONLY MATHEMATICAL interference!!!
. ^
. |
. "Interference fringes"
. ^
. |
. See MATLAB Function Reference: fft
. [frequency domaine]
. [ COMPUTER FFT ] Fourier transform
. ^
. |
. [time domaine]
. [videotape 1] ------> [ CORRELATOR ] <------- [videotape 2]
  

>From a physical point of view, for us will be MAIN comparison:

     [time domaine] <---> [frequency domane]

     [ a PARTICLE ] <---> [ a WAVE ]

See MATLAB Function Reference: fft

     [time domaine] <---> [frequency domane]

"Examples
A common use of Fourier transforms is to find the frequency
components of a signal buried in a noisy time domain signal."
"Duality between the time domain and the frequency domain makes
it possible to perform any operation in either domain. Usually
one domain or the other is more convenient for a particular
operation, but you can always accomplish a given operation in
either domain."

Wavelet Toolbox: Wavelets: A New Tool for Signal Analysis: Fourier
Analysis

"Wavelet Toolbox
Fourier Analysis
Signal analysts already have at their disposal an impressive
arsenal of tools.
Perhaps the most well-known of these is Fourier analysis, which
breaks down a signal into constituent sinusoids of different
frequencies.

Another way to think of Fourier analysis is as a mathematical
technique for transforming our view of the signal from time-based
to frequency-based.

Fourier analysis has a serious drawback. In transforming to the
frequency domain, time information is lost. When looking at a
Fourier transform of a signal, it is impossible to tell when a
particular event took place.

If the signal properties do not change much over time -- that is,
if it is what is called a stationary signal -- this drawback
isn't very important.

However, most interesting signals contain numerous
nonstationary or transitory characteristics: drift, trends,
abrupt changes, and beginnings and ends of events.
These characteristics are often the most important part
of the signal, and Fourier analysis is not
suited to detecting them."

Now I shall set up new physical interpretation of
The Bohr's complementarity principle:

=============================================
Fourier transforms in DIGITAL correlator
the transform and inverse transform pair are:

     [VLBI time domaine] <---> [VLBI frequency domane]
          [ a PARTICLE ] <---> [ a WAVE ]

It is connection of The Bohr's complementarity principle
with Fourier transforms for stationary quantum systems

See:

"Fourier analysis has a serious drawback. In transforming to the
frequency domain, time information is lost. When looking at a
Fourier transform of a signal, it is impossible to tell when a
particular event took place."
============================================= 

---
     >;^)))
[snip]
> > > Feynman would have laughed at you and your confusion.
> >
> > You again make an error.
> > The destiny has played with Feynman a malicious joke.
> > Fortunately or unfortunately Feynman did not know physical
> > principles of operation of VLBI.
> >
> > > Untill you understand that there is no "need" for SELF INTERFERENCE of
> > > a photon in a telescope, there is nothing left to say!
> >
> > Any image in any optical instrument is result of interference
> > addition of signals from an initial source(radiant).
> > So any optical instrument is a interferomoter or correlator!!
> > That one have been named or not a interferomoter!!!
> >
> > The destiny has played with Feynman a malicious joke.
> > Fortunately or unfortunately Feynman did not know physical
> > principles of operation of VLBI.
> >
> > By leaning on a formalism of QM Feynman required a
> > self-interference of any quantum particle.
> >
> > So the photon is obliged to have a self-interference on two slots
> > according to Feynman. But the photon has not a self-interference
> > in VLBI and consequently that one does not exist in the nature!!!
> >
> >  It is crash for QED etc. etc....
> >
> > ---
> > >;^)))

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