Re: Lorentz on special relativity

From: Bill Hobba (bhobba_at_rubbish.net.au)
Date: 01/13/05 

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:30:53 GMT

"Harry" <harald.vanlintel@epfl.ch> wrote in message
news:41e6a224$1@epflnews.epfl.ch...
> As Einstein admitted, SRT was a development of Lorentz and himself. But
the
> fable continues to be spread that Lorentz had an ether theory that was
> replaced by SRT so that the stationary ether concept was abolished, and
that
> Lorentz accepted Einstein's philosophy on that point.
>
> Therefore it may be instructive to be aware of the following text by
> Lorentz.
> After explaining kinematical transformations by use of the stationary
ether
> concept, Lorentz remarked:
>
> "Of course, the description of natural phenomena and the testing of what
the
> theory of relativity has to say about them can be carried out
independently
> of what one thinks of the aether and the time. From a physical point of
view
> these questions can be left on one side, and especially the question of
the
> true time can be handed over to the theory of knowledge.
> The modern physicists, as Einstein and Minkowski, speak no longer about
> aether at all [footnote: See, however, Einstein's address "Aether und
> Relativitaetstheorie", Univ. Leiden, 1920"]. This, however, is a question
of
> taste and words. For, whether there is an aether or not, electromagnetic
> fields certainly exist,

And things has moved on since then. Wheeler and Feynman were able to
formulate EM in terms of direct interparticle interaction - no fields
required. Fields are seen simply as a device to allow the formulation of
conservation laws in their usual form - Kenyans and Wheelers formulation did
not have the usual conservation laws. Of course that is classically - they
were never able to give a quantum version of their theory - so good old QM
would seem to lie at the basis of the existence of fields rather than an
aether - but even that may be reading too much into it.

Bill

> and so also does the energy of the electrical
> oscillations. If we do not like the name of "aether", we must use another
> word as a peg to hang all these things upon. It is not certain whether
> "space" can be extended so as to take care not only of the geometrical
> properties but also of the electric ones.
> One cannot deny to the bearer of these properties a certain
substantiality,
> and if so, then one may, in all modesty, call true time the time measured
by
> clocks which are fixed in this medium, and consider simultaneity as a
> primary concept."
>
> - The Principle of Relativity for uniform translations (1910-1912),
> Lectures on Theoretical Physics Vol.III, 1931 (authorised translation of
the
> Dutch version of 1922).
>
> Harald
>
>

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Shuberts Derivation of the Lorentz Transformations
    ... >>>the FoR of the ether. ... >> understand that the Lorentz transform, along with the premise of an absolute ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Lorentz on special relativity
    ... SRT was a development of Lorentz and himself. ... fable continues to be spread that Lorentz had an ether theory that was ... of what one thinks of the aether and the time. ... true time can be handed over to the theory of knowledge. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Are you an idealist? (was: Einsteins logic)
    ... Following MMX Lorentz felt that the wave ether theory was too good just ... This is the same as the first postulate of SR and the second ... "It is important to emphasise that special relativity purports to ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: An Explanation of Special Relativity
    ... >>are made when one of the two relatively moving sources is at rest wrt ... >>the ether. ... In order for Lorentz to derive those predictions he must ... >>any observer can consider himself at rest. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Relativity Timelines
    ... transverse wave and transmitted by the ether. ... Lorentz transformations. ... electrodynamics of moving bodies'. ... Planck publishes a paper on relativity. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)