Re: Sourse dependency (for genius only)

From: Tom Capizzi (etianshrdlu_at_verizon.net)
Date: 02/21/05 

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 16:51:39 GMT

"Oriel36" <geraldkelleher@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:273f8e06.0502210411.657a92ad@posting.google.com...
> "Tom Capizzi" <etianshrdlu@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:<B95Sd.38159$t46.33230@trndny04>...
>> <geraldkelleher@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1108905817.989251.247420@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> [begin quote]
>>
>> The following astronomical description by Newton is the single
>> greatest
>> indication that he unfortunately scrambled the insight of Roemer with
>> Keplerian motion hence the tangle every time contemporaries open
>> their
>> mouth on finite light distance.
>>
>>
>> PHÆNOMENON V.
>> Then the primary planets, by radii drawn to the earth, describe areas
>> no wise proportional to the times; but that the areas which they
>> describe by radii drawn to the sun are proportional to the times of
>> description.
>>
>> For to the earth they appear sometimes direct, sometimes stationary,
>> nay, and sometimes retrograde. But from the sun they are always seen
>> direct, and to proceed with a motion nearly uniform, that is to say,
>> a
>> little swifter in the perihelion and a little slower in the aphelion
>> distances, so as to maintain an equality in the description of the
>> areas. This a noted proposition among astronomers, and particularly
>> demonstrable in Jupiter, from the eclipses of his satellites; by the
>> help of which eclipses, as we have said, the heliocentric longitudes
>> of
>> that planet, and its distances from the sun, are determined."
>>
>> http://members.tripod.com/~gravitee/phaenomena.htm
>>
>> A genius cannot tolerate inferiority or insincerity and Newton
>> displays
>> both attributes in abundance.He is a theorist who imagines he is an
>> astronomer as are all those who follow the empirical cult.
>>
>> There is no crisis in cosmology as some would have it for basically
>> you
>> are reaping what was sowed a few hundred years ago,by not
>> co-operating
>> with me or among yourselves you managed to create a particularly
>> nasty
>> situation for the first time in the history of the investigation of
>> natural phenomena and threaten to take down everything with the
>> scientific umbrella.
>>
>> Btw,Knowing exactly what Isaac did wrong is far more enjoyable than
>> the
>> early 20th century trash which is simply an exotic festering of the
>> Newtonian picture.So far,all anyone does is run around the Newtonian
>> cage like squirrels.
>>
>> [end quote]
>>
>> So exactly what did Isaac get wrong, according to you?
>
> A novel approach is to determine that Keplerian motion can be derived
> from the sum of the planet's heliocentric orbital motion and the
> planet's galactic orbital motion (from a line drawn through the center
> of the Sun's galactic orbital path).
>
> Newton astronomically set things up on the basis of terrestial
> ballistics and an isolated solar system with no external influences
> acting on the Sun or planets,not only that,he used an astronomical
> shortcut based on Flamsteed's erroneous isochronical proof.
>
>
> "Cor. 2. And since these stars are liable to no sensible parallax from
> the annual motion of the earth, they can have no force, because of
> their immense distance, to produce any sensible effect in our system.
> Not to mention that the fixed stars, every where promiscuously
> dispersed in the heavens, by their contrary actions destroy their
> mutual actions, by Prop. LXX, Book I."[Principia]
>
> The mechanism for the change in orbital shape of the Earth from more
> to less elliptical and subsequently climatological change is wrapped
> up in the cyclical changes in the solar system's galactic orbital
> trajectory whereas there is no facility within the Newtonian system
> for the change from less circular to more elliptical.Considering
> Keplerian geometry and motion in light of the solar system's galactic
> orbital motion is attractive for it retains the second and third laws
> even while orbital shape changes.
>
> I have provided supporting statements to demonstrate that Newton was
> mixing Keplerian insights on planetary motion with Roemerian insights
> and coming up with a botched job that would have made very little
> difference in his era but not in ours.
>
> " Some inequalities of time may arise from the Excentricities of the
> Orbs of the Satellites; [etc.]... But this inequality has no respect
> to the position of the Earth, and in the three interior Satellites is
> insensible, as I find by computation from the Theory of their
> Gravity."
>
> http://dibinst.mit.edu/BURNDY/OnlinePubs/Roemer/chapter3(part2).html
>
> A genius,at the very least,is expected to recognise that Newton is
> scrambling the astronomical picture and does'nt really have a good
> grasp of the Roemerian insight on finite light distance.You can argue
> in circles forever about source dependency and bluff and bluster a way
> to get the early 20th century concepts to fly but the arguments were
> lost centuries ago with Newtonian statements like the one above.
>
> Thanks for being civil in this matter.

According to my search, the Milky Way Galaxy has a 200,000,000 year
orbital period. I don't think it is unreasonable to ignore this in making
observations within the Solar System over a couple of centuries, let
alone over a couple of years. Considering that several of the outer
planets were discovered because of their effects on the orbits of inner
planets, it would seem far more logical to look at these for sources of
orbital change. As far as I know, the n-body problem has no explicit
solution, so it is not correct to assume the shape of earth's orbit should
be absolutely the same for all time.
Further, you allude to climate change as a result of the galactic orbit. I
am reasonably certain that variations in climate have been documented
to take place over periods that are several orders of magnitude shorter
than the galactic cycle. Variability in the sun's output is far more
significant in causing climate change than galactic position. After all,
a significant correlation exists between sunspot maxima and warmer
temperatures that occurs on an 11 year cycle.
Your reply was light on specifics and heavy on opinions. It didn't
really answer my question, but only raised new ones. If you want to
be obtuse, that's fine. Just don't expect any converts.

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