Re: What are the SR predictions for these experiments??
From: PD (pdraper_at_yahoo.com)
Date: 03/04/05
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Date: 4 Mar 2005 13:10:44 -0800
kenseto wrote:
> "PD" <pdraper@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1109967267.935607.214460@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > kenseto wrote:
> > > 1. Two touching and synchronized cesium clocks A and B and slow
> > transport
> > > them in the opposite directions at a rate of separation 20m/day
for a
> > total
> > > separation of 100m. SR agrees that these two clocks will remain
> > > synchronized.
> >
> > While they are moving at 20m/day relative velocity, they will no
longer
> > be synchronized.
>
> I think you are wrong. They are both moving at a velocity of 10m/day
wrt the
> starting point.in the opposite directions. Doesn't SR say that they
will
> remain synchronized?
No. Moving is moving. The SR correction is small, but it is not zero.
>
> >Synchronization is a procedure ONLY on clocks that are
> > at rest with respect to each other. IF the clocks are brought to
rest
> > when they are 100 m apart (and you don't say whether that is done
or
> > not), then the clocks can be resynchronized.
>
> How do you test for OWLS or TWLS if they don't brought to rest after
100m
> separation?
Ah, fine then. So I'll assume for the rest of the discussion that they
are at rest 100 m apart and have been resynchronized.
> >
> > > 2. All distance measurements are made with a physical ruler.
> >
> > That's not an SR prediction, so I assume you mean this is something
> > you're imposing.
>
> That's the normal way of measuring distance in our daily life.
Yes, though recall that SR warns that our "normal way" is not
guaranteed to produce consistent results.
> >
> > Is the ruler stationary with respect to A or with respect to B?
>
> ???? You mark of a distance of 50m on the opposite directions with a
ruler
> for a total separation of 100 m.
Ah, fine, then the ruler and the two clocks A & B are all at rest with
respect to each other.
>
> >Or are
> > A and B both moving with respect to the ruler?
>
> Sigh...the distances are marked off before the slow transport of the
clocks
> begin.
Ah, OK, though note that a ruler riding along with A would not
necessarily agree that the distance covered was 50 m by the time it got
to the prearranged mark.
But that's fine, we'll stick with the prearranged marks only.
>
> >(This will make a
> > difference as to whether A and B or the person at rest with respect
to
> > the ruler agrees that A and B are 100 m apart.) Or is this after A
and
> > B have been brought to rest again and resynchronized?
>
> A and B are brought to rest again after the distance of separation of
100 m
> is reached.
Okey-doke.
> >
> > > 3. Do the one-way measurement of light speed with these two
> > synchronized
> > > clocks from A's location.
> >
> > Are the clocks stll moving at 100 m apart? If so, then you can't
use
> > them to do a 1-way measurement of light speed.
>
> This is an obvious attempt to obfuscate the experiment. You know damn
well
> that the clocks come to rest after the separation of 100 meters is
reached.
Not until you said so.
In this case, it would be c.
> >
> > > 4. Do the one-way measurement of light speed with these two
> > synchronized
> > > clocks from A's location..
> >
> > Are the clocks still moving at 100 m apart?
>
> Hey idiot the clocks came to rest after 100 m separation.
Right. I forgot.
In this case, it would be c.
>
> >If so, then you can't use
> > them to do a 1-way measurement of light speed.
> >
> > > 5. Do the two-way measurement of light speed from A's location.
> >
> > See the above.
The answer would be c.
> >
> > > 6. Do the two-way measurement of light speed from B's location.
> >
> > See the above.
The answer would be c.
> >
> > >
> > > What are the SR predictions for these experiments??
>
> Why are you refusing to give one SR predictions for these
experiments??
I'm not. I just needed you to clarify the experiment (which you just
did) before answering. The devil is in the details.
PD
>
> Ken Seto
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