Re: THE ETHER AND THE ROTATING CYLINDER.

From: Paul B. Andersen (paul.b.andersen_at_deletethishia.no)
Date: 03/09/05 

Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2005 14:51:07 +0100

Gerald L. O'Barr wrote:
> THE ETHER AND THE ROTATING CYLINDER.
>
> Let us take a rotating cylinder that is perfectly
> at rest in the ether. Being at rest in the ether
> means certain things physically. Physically, there
> is no physical twist in this bar at any time, no
> matter how fast it rotates, and no matter what
> anything else might be doing. And physically, being
> at rest, this means that the actual physical length
> of this bar is always fixed in length. So this makes
> the problem very simple and easy to solve at all
> times, for any conditions.
> Let us take this bar, this cylinder, and place one
> end at the x origin, and one portion of its rotating
> surface along the x axis, and its other end at the
> 0.866 c-seconds position, and rotate it at 1 rps.
> This means that the bar is physically 0.866 c-seconds
> in length! If a needle or a marking pen were
> smoothly moved from the origin to the opposite end in
> one second (a velocity of 0.866c), then one complete
> physical turn will have been marked upon the
> cylinder.
> All this is perfect and easy to understand and to
> agree upon. And for the SR experts, everything said
> up to here is as it would also be measured to be, in
> an inertial frame that would be at rest in the ether
> and at rest with the bar. Up to here, we all have to
> agree. Please note! This problem is not and cannot
> be used if the rotating cylinder itself moved through
> the ether. We are only considering here the
> situation where the rotating bar remains at rest in
> the ether (at rest other than its rotation.)
>
> So, up to this point, as was said, we must all
> perfectly agree. So where is the problem? The
> problem occurs as soon as we step outside of the rest
> frame, into the frame of the moving needle. So let
> us for a moment consider what the frame of the moving
> needle sees (measures)(and physically experiences):
> This is what physically occurs in this frame:
> Physically, in the frame of the needle, all clocks
> moving with the needle do run slow, by a rate of one
> half! And all rulers in this moving frame, along
> the x axis, are only one half of their normal length.
> Therefore, physically, if a physical ruler were
> laid up against the cylinder, made up of short one-
> half length rulers, it could measure the bar to be
> twice as long.

And how can that be done?
Please be specific.

> But we know that in SR the bar is
> measured to be only one half as long.
> How does that happen? It happens because the SR
> procedure of making a length measurement for a moving
> object requires one to measure the time of clocks, as
> well as their positions. The measurement of the
> length of a moving object is the scale difference of
> two clocks that recorded the local presence of the
> opposite ends of the bar while showing the same
> identical time. (Please note: the word 'local' was
> used. This is an important word, an important
> concept, that has to be understood if you are going
> to understand SR measurements.)
> So if you have a clock at each end of the bar
> showing the same exact time, then the distance
> between these clocks is the length of the bar. Thus,
> just by changing the sync time settings on your
> clocks, you can change the length of any moving
> object. And this is exactly what is done. You sync
> your clocks in a fixed way, and it is the sync of
> your clocks that changes the measurement from being
> twice as long to only half as long. Simple, simple,
> simple. And it is this same sync that keeps the
> velocity to be the same, and keeps c to be the same.
> Now in SR, this is all assumed to be true, on the
> measurement side. But in the ether approach, one has
> to be many times more complicated, because you follow
> more things. You follow what happens physically, and
> then you have to take all these physical changes, and
> determine what would be measured if all these
> physical things occurred. So SR experts do not like
> all these complications. But until we do consider
> all these things, we will never really understand
> what actually occurs.
> So the final results: Whether we see things as
> they are in the rest frame of the ether (the rest
> frame of the cylinder), or in the rest frame of the
> needle, the final results (one complete marking of
> the cylinder) has to occur. In the frame of the
> needle, due to the syncing of the clocks that are
> used in this moving frame, the bar appears to be
> twisted, as some have noted. But this twist, as seen
> in the moving frame, is totally false, in the sense
> that physically, this bar never twists at all. It is
> all a false sense of a twist due to the artificial
> simultaneity that exists in this moving frame.
> Does anyone really care? I do. But since no real
> expert will care, and will not take the trouble to
> explain such details, then it really does me no good
> at all to sit here and do the work, because everyone
> will laugh or make fun or ignore it. So have your
> fun, you people, and say your silly things. But in
> the end, I know that my way of thinking will happen,
> and then we will see who is laughing. You SR experts
> are crazy, all because you are lazy and uncaring
> people. Shame on you all!
>
> Thanks for reading.
> (sorry about the change in the title!)
> Gerald L. O'Barr <globarr...@yahoo.com>
> / remove 3 dots for e-mail
>
>
>
> P.S. The real fun starts when we begin to consider,
> physically, what physically happens when a rotating
> bar, as described above, begins itself to move along
> the x axis. Here we begin to see two twists in the
> bar, one that is only artificial (due to the syncing
> of the clocks involved), combined with a real
> physical twist. Here is where things really get
> complicated, and it is here where I have tried to go
> to show people that we might find a partial component
> of our absolute velocity. But I see that we cannot
> even handle a simple, non-moving bar. What a loss!

The world is full of physically contracted people,
and they don't even realize it!

Strange world.

Paul

Relevant Pages

  • THE ETHER AND THE ROTATING CYLINDER.
    ... THE ETHER AND THE ROTATING CYLINDER. ... of this bar is always fixed in length. ... frame, into the frame of the moving needle. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Ambiguity in the "Affine Connection"
    ... trying to make 'absolute' into something impossible. ... object at rest in that frame, ... size, and a real rate, and a real sync, is important, ... The rotating bar is very simple. ...
    (sci.physics)
  • Re: Ambiguity in the "Affine Connection"
    ... trying to make 'absolute' into something impossible. ... object at rest in that frame, ... size, and a real rate, and a real sync, is important, ... The rotating bar is very simple. ...
    (sci.astro)
  • Re: Ambiguity in the "Affine Connection"
    ... trying to make 'absolute' into something impossible. ... object at rest in that frame, ... size, and a real rate, and a real sync, is important, ... The rotating bar is very simple. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Ambiguity in the "Affine Connection"
    ... trying to make 'absolute' into something impossible. ... object at rest in that frame, ... size, and a real rate, and a real sync, is important, ... The rotating bar is very simple. ...
    (sci.math)