Re: Through a glass darkly

From: jahn (susysewnshow_at_yahoo.com.au)
Date: 03/26/05 

Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 17:03:53 -0500

"Dr ***" <paulpsremove@freeuk.com> wrote in message news:1111870612.32970.0@dyke.uk.clara.net...
>
> | > |
> | > | When the E and H relative phases move through ~180 degreees in
> | > | less than two wavelengths, do you consider that less significant than
> | > | than a change in medium ?
> | > |

> | http://www.conformity.com/0102reflectionsfig3.gif
> | From:
> | http://www.conformity.com/0102reflections.html
> http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/Ewald-OseenExtinctionTheorem.html
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=+site:aa.usno.navy.mil+usno+atmosph
> ere+sunset
> |
> | A submarine dominates the motion of the water in it's tubes.
> | An EM structure dominates the propagation of EM waves
> | in it aperture.
>
Dr*** wrote:
Yes got your point I thought you were of at some tangent. So can we conclude
that a particle travelling at velocity n will always emit EMR at c relative
to the particle but after what you call extinction distance the velocity
will change to c relative to the surrounding vacuum ?

Sue...wrote:
Your use of the word particle implies a point. In fact it might be
a police antenna, a ferrite loop stick, an accelerating charge or
an atomic oscillator. The propagtion of the E and H components
is different for each of these structures in the near field. These
first (and last) few wavelenghts are where we use an imaginary
time axis to deal with the complex impedance and also where
any motion wrt the bulk-matter of the dielectric is extinguished.

I like better:

So can we conclude
that a particle travelling at velocity n will always emit EMR at c wrt
the matter which establishes the dielectric properties of the region.

> | >
> SIGH......................................................................
> |
> | SIGH...LOOK...
> | http://www.conformity.com/0102reflectionsfig3.gif
> |

> |
> | You deny the charges are part of the mechanism, then replace their
> | function with some concoction like *source spectral shift*.
>
> Did I say that the charges where not part of the mechanism?

Ask your minions. LOL *burp*

> I don't think I
> did I was just simplifying by using source spectral shift if you wish to go
> into works of how spectral shift is generated then roll on because I'm quite
> happy to go into the nuts and bolts and do an analysis of the bolts.

Well shore! We are half way there.

> So there are two major components in spectral shift medium changes and velocity
> differences. As the medium changes from one charge density to another the
> wavelength of EMR either contracts or expands due to velocity changes caused
> by the density change this produces a change in the observed frequency and
> if a reference spectra is available then this can be compared with the
> observer to determine the effect of this medium change. Also after
> extracting this information from the observed any remaining shift should be
> concluded as coming from velocity differences between the EMR before
> entering the change zone and after exit. ok?

Hmmm Close... :-)
In Hubble-land these rules seem to be constantly changing so you might
consult Ned Wright for the latest.
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmo_01.htm

Rather than pick you statement apart.... it is close.
let's look how we are interchanging frequency and wavelentgh.

If we establish a microwave path across an evacuated room
then slowly pressurize the room. We will also have to slowly
lengthen the dipoles if we want to maintain the systems
coupling efficiency. Why?
The wavelength changes even tho the frequency doesn't.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/wavrel.html

Many folks that should know better, get themselves confused
about whether an expanding dielectric should exhibit a frequency
or wavelength change. When you say *spectral shift* are you
refering to frequency or wavelength. What does Ned Wright
mean? Are we sure he is doing it correctly?
(All rhetorical questions ;-) )

A frequency change on a path, means we can see more or
less events than actually ocurred so anything but a changing
path length should tickle our skeptical bone.

With all that in mind, you might re-read your statement above
and reconsider a few parts. ;-)

Sue...

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