Re: johnreed take 13 - 2005 first draft


<randamajor@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1117663020.312722.45030@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
> Bill Hobba wrote:
> > <randamajor@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> > news:1116963658.733574.143030@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >
> > >
> > > Bill Hobba wrote:
> > > > randamajor@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > 'The question does arise, " Does the earth attractor act on each
atom of
> > the
> > > > gold chunk, or does it act on the specific mass of each atom?"'
> > > >
> > > > Since the mass of an atom is an intrinsic property the question is
> > > > meaningless.
> > > >
> > > > Bill
> > >
> > > What you are saying then is: Since we have no way to distinguish
> > > between the two, we regard them as intrinsically the same.
> >
> > No. I am saying that mass is a property matter has
>
> jr writes>
> Yes, and this property of matter, mass, we believe is the property of
> matter that generates our "feel" of attraction to the earth. Which we
> assign to the entire universe as a controlling force. But, if the
> proportional aspect of the attractor focus is on stable states of
> matter, and not on the "mass" of stable states of matter, it changes
> our entire paradigm. What we have now is a 50-50 chance either way, as
> I see it.

The property of mass has nothing to do with the concept of a systems
stability.

>
> like electric charge -
> > uncharged particles have a charge of zero
>
> jr writes>
> Stable elements with all electrons intact also have a charge of 0. Only
> when the electron is removed do we have a charge. This speaks to, again
> as I see it, the electromagnetic formation of matter.

I fail to see your logic.

> A stable element
> will be attracted to either a large atomic aggregate or a one with a
> randamajor (see take V.1) core.
>
> - massless particles have a mass
> > of 0. Why do particles have this property?
>
> jr writes>
>
> Here are you referencing theoretical particles like the neutrino and
> photon? Or are you referencing something more tangible.

Photons and Neutrinos are about as tangible as you can get.

>
>
> In the case of mass we think
> > the Higgs field has something to do with it - in the case of charge
> > according to Kaluza Klein theory it depends on its initial velocity in
the
> > 5th dimension.
>
> jr writes>
> I see three space dimensions and one time dimension. Some mathematical
> use can be derived from the combination that at least retains a
> connection to reality however obscured. But when you interject 5, 6, 7
> etc etc and etc dimensions, just because you can algebraically, as
> elegant and effective as it may appear to be, in terms of numbers, it
> is an indiscriminate use of mathematics to foist a picture of reality
> from it, onto the rest of humanity.

Any theory in accord with observation is as good as any other - regardless
of what you think of its assumptions.

Thanks
Bill

>
> But you really have not progressed much beyond saying it is
> > simply a property particles can have.
>
> jr writes>
> Well Bill, an expansion of take 6 will clarify the nature of particles.
> Anyone can do this in terms of the "chrome ring" structure. It does not
> require me any more. I have to focus on the foundational errors we
> retain to insure that the entire field is covered. Only when I am
> satisfied that enough information has been made available will I return
> to expand on this area. Suffice it for now to say that those particles
> created and released by the elements are fundamental. The rest are
> largely rubble.
> > >
> > > What I said previously was: We can perform no experiment that can
> > > differentiate between the atom and its mass, such that we can tell
> > > which is being acted upon by the earth attractor.
> >
> > John statements of this nature - like discussing the number of angels
that
> > can dance on the head of a pin - is a dead end. If you think otherwise
try
> > making a prediction that can test it.
>
> jr writes>
> Uh? I think that was my original point Bill. Since none exists we have
> a 50-50 chance of being wrong. Isn't this worth investigating?
> >>
> > Bill
> >
> > >
> > > You wave away the difficulty in a similar fashion as did Newton with
> > > regard to planetary matter. He said, "Since it is true for all matter
> > > we can experimentally verify, it is true for all matter whatsoever."
> > > (paraphrased)
> > >
> > > But Newton had no further evidence before him. Dante's Inferno defined
> > > the inner workings of the earth at the time and atoms were still a
> > > notion of the ancients.
> > >
> > > I suppose it relates in some manner to the idea of experimental
> > > verification being required for any avenue of thought. Since we cannot
> > > tell the difference between the two experimentally, they are the same.
> > >
> > > It is often the case that we just don't accept the result from
> > > experiment at face value. Free fall, escape velocity and orbit
velocity
> > > all show that mass does not enter into the earth attractor
mathematics.
> > > So what do we have left for the earth attractor to act on?
> > >
> > > Where you would wave it away, I instead developed a system from it.
And
> > > my system leads to all kinds of non-contradictory rational
explanations
> > > that assimilate anomolies (sp?) and conundrums that arise from the
> > > mainstream view.
> > >
> > > I have yet to get to most of them. I keep coming back to the problem
of
> > > mass. I think I will push on with other aspects of it, its just hard
to
> > > discontinue arguments that challenge gravity, because gravity is the
> > > cause of all our esoteric mathematics.
> > >
> > > johnreed
> > >
>


.

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