Re: relativity of simultaneity - real or perceived?


<bsr3997@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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>
>
> Martin Hogbin wrote:
> > <bsr3997@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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> > >
> > >
> > > Martin Hogbin wrote:
> > > >
> > > > You can check them by bringing them back together and comparing
> > > > them. The _experimental_ result if you do this is that if you move
> > > > them quickly the clocks do not, in general, remain synchronised.
> > > > Moving them rapidly, therefore not a good way to synchronise
> > > > clocks but even if you move them slowly there is no way to be sure
> > > > that they will remain synchronised.
> > >
> > > Both SR and LET agree, the clock goes out of sync when moved, and
> > > almost returns to being in sync when brought back.
> >
> > No, in SR it remains synchronised if moved slowly.
> >
> > Note I was not talking about SR, LET or any other theory
> > of space and time. I was merely making the point that there
> > is no way we can determine whether two spatially separated
> > clocks are synchronised. The means that the term synchronised
> > does not have any meaning in this context unless we choose
> > give it one.
> >
> > > The further you
> > > move it, the further it goes out of sync.
> >
> > Not in SR. In LET it all depends on your speed through
> > the aether.
> >
> > > The faster you move it, the
> > > greater the discrepancy when the clock is brought back.
> >
> > Yes, if you move one clock and keep the other inertial.
> >
> > > To observe the out of sync condition the clocks must be compared using
> > > clocks in another frame.
> >
> > In SR there is no out of sync condition if the clocks are moved
> > slowly. In LET there is but it can never be observed.
> >
> > > When compared to clocks at rest in its own
> > > frame it will appear to stay in sync when moved slowly.
> >
> > You seem terribly muddled about this.
> >
> > Martin Hogbin
>
> In SR, the clocks in frame A are out of sync when viewed from the
> moving frame B. Take a clock and sync it with the clock at point 1 in
> frame A. Slowly move it to point 2 in frame A. SR says that the moved
> clock will be in sync with the clock at point 2. We have already
> established that the clock at point 2 is not in sync with the clock at
> point 1 when viewed from frame B, so the moved clock had to go out of
> sync with one clock to get in sync with the other.
>
> SR and LET use the same math. What happens in one must happen in the
> other.
>
> In LET, a clock at rest in the aether ticks faster than a moving clock.
> But if you could take a clock from a moving frame and place it at rest
> in the aether frame, it would appear to slow down. That would be due
> to using clocks that are out of sync to determine the new tick rate.
>
> Hope I haven't confused you too much. I just wanted to let Curious
> know that the clocks being in sync when brought back together does not
> prove it stayed in sync when moved.
>
> Bruce

Thanks, I had in mind to do the same but didn't have the time. I hope he
didn't overlook it.

BTW it's rather basic knowledge and Paul Stowe already explained it on May
30, but it appears that both Curious and Bill overlooked it:
"This non-zero [transportation speed] will affect the actual tick rate
relative [...] to any rest frame underlying the system.
Thus, even 'slowly' moving clocks affects them, and if you wish to do the
math, in just the right manner as to alter their
readings to account for the distance offset they have moved."

Doing the math helps a lot for understanding.

Harald


.

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