Re: Inside a black hole



N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc) wrote:
> Dear RichD:
>
> "RichD" <r_delaney2001@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:1121560295.804470.58850@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Dear David A. Smith,
> >
> > N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc) wrote:
> >> Dear RichD:
> >> >> It is possible to change your position in angle
> >> >> (\theta, \phi) but a stable orbit is not possible.
> >> >> You will continue to approach the
> >> >> singularity no matter what you do.
> >> >
> >> > So you can't orbit like a planet around the sun?
> >>
> >> Far enough away, yes. But keep in mind that a
> >> BH tends to comsume additional matter, so
> >> you'll need to keep boosting out a bit.
> >
> > No, I meant after entering the hole, you can't
> > orbit the singularity?
>
> No. Consider that the fastest thing in the Universe is light, it

WRONG, the absence of light goes faster then light


> it can only "orbit" in the photon sphere, which is *outside* the
> event horizon. Inside this photon sphere, all vectors point at

i told you,

> the singularity (more correctly, the event horizon).
>
> >> But Mr. Dumse was talking about inside the
> >> horizon, where r is believed to become an
> >> internal t. Can you stop the passage of time,
> >> and see the Universe as unchanging? This is
> >> what such an "orbit" would entail.
> >
> > "r becomes t"?
> > What does this mean?
>
> Outside the black hole, one could describe our entire Universe
> spatially, from coordinates located at the geometrical center of
> this black hole. Were you to use spherical coordinates, r
> provides the "radius" from this "center" to any point "out here".
>
> At the event horizon, in one solution-set to GR, "outer r"
> becomes timelike at the event horizon. This means that inside
> the black hole, time starts at the "inside" of the event horizon
> (aka. Big Bang), and proceeds towards the "singularity".
>
> Can you orbit at constant time t in this Universe? Note that
> could you travel at c, you might stop aging, but you are still
> heading for the future.
>
> >> > Let's say I fire my thrusters so as to move away from
> >> > the singularity. Space is curved, so I don't travel
> >> > straight away from it. But I watch my rear view mirror,
> >> > and continually make corrections to keep moving further
> >> > out (toward the horizon).
> >> >
> >> > Why can't I do that?
> >>
> >> Because once inside the event horizon, everything
> >> moves away from "The Big Bang".
> >
> > ?
>
> Can you stop time for the entire Universe, from your frame of
> reference, and you still be "aware of it"?
>
> >> >> > Will you 'bump your head' on the event horizon?
> >> >>
> >> >> No, the horizon is (after all) moving away from
> >> >> you at the speed of light. You can never regain it.
> >> >
> >> > hmmm, you mean, for an observer inside, the
> >> > hole's outer surface appears to grow at the speed
> >> > of light? Very strange.
> >>
> >> Look at the CMBR. It is pretty close to the edge of
> >> observability now.
> >
> > ?
>
> The CMBR is just inside the event horizon of the black hole that
> contains our Universe. (From the POV on one set of solutions to
> GR.)
>
> >> Consider that *this* Universe could very well
> >> be the inside of a BH. The mathematics
> >> describes the inside of a BH very much like
> >> it describes the Universe around us.
> >
> > So if we're insude a black hole, that means
> > there's a singularity at the 'center' of the
> > universe?
>
> Actually, no. The container Universe will insist that we are
> moving towards a singularity, yet internal space in our Universe
> is *unconstrained* by the container Universe. It is free to
> expand, in agreement with the second law of thermodynamics, and
> our "singularity" is (apparently) a cold, dark, infinitely
> diffuse future.
>
> > Wouldn't
> > that violate the anisotropy of space?
>
> Such "violation" is perhaps in the *other* direction (towards the
> past). But we won't be able to see on the other side of that
> which produced the CMBR, so we won't be able to tell.
>
> >> >> > And how does angular momentum affect any of this?
> >> >>
> >> >> A rotating black hole drags space with it.
> >> >
> >> > I had in mind an object not falling straight through,
> >> > but obliquely, like the space shuttle re-entering
> >> > the atmosphere.
> >>
> >> When all vectors point into the hole, what are niceities like
> >> "oblique"?
> >
> > I can fire a bullet straight up, or at a 45* angle. The
> > vectors at which they strike the earth will have different
> > directions.
>
> In this case, there is no "up". All vectors are down. Some are
> "downer" than others. Light sent directly up from just outside
> the event horizon might eventually make it out. But once inside
> the event horizon, all light is heading for the center (aka. the
> future).
>
> David A. Smith

.

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