Re: Wilsonian (true, lightless) Relativity....Wilson's Paradox.


"Henri Wilson" <H@..> wrote in message
news:nve6j1t27e423951cusap36qptfh54h7ed@xxxxxxxxxx
| On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 00:20:26 GMT, "Androcles" <Androcles@ MyPlace.org>
wrote:
|
| >
| >"Henri Wilson" <H@..> wrote in message
| >news:o451j115kum421nuq72bmjpalpstuc912q@xxxxxxxxxx
| >| On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 00:09:28 GMT, "Androcles" <Androcles@
MyPlace.org>
| >wrote:
| >|
|
| >| >|
| >| >| It IS.
| >| >| Why does a photon emerge after an electron transition in a
| >particular
| >| >direction
| >| >| and traveling at precisely c relative to some aspect of the
| >associated
| >| >atom?
| >| >| Does it travel at c wrt the centre of the atom or wrt some
aspect
| >of
| >| >the
| >| >| electron?
| >| >|
| >| >| Electron energy levels are presumed from spectral data. If
| >| >"E=hc/Lambda" is
| >| >| wrong then so are the calculated levels.
| >| >
| >| >A slight but important modification is required here, H.
| >| >E = h(c+v)/lambda.
| >| >The reason should be self evident, but if not just ask.
| >|
| >| I was assuming 'c' is the speed wrt the source.
| >
| >Sure, but the energy you measure is going to be wrt the observer.
| >You'd know it if I hurled a cricket ball at you while riding the back
| >of a 4x4 at 60 mph instead of bowling it to you.
| >The question is, if v = c does the energy double?
| >I expected you to argue, but I thought maybe you'd challenge
| >the equation I gave.
| >E = 1/2 mv^2, right?
|
| I asked a somewhat relevant question some time ago.
|
| You know all about threshholds wavelengths in the PE effect.

I think the demo at
http://lectureonline.cl.msu.edu/~mmp/kap28/PhotoEffect/photo.htm
is a good one, but I'm not a bean counter, I donlt know ALL about
them, just the principle.


| Let's say for a particular metal, electrons start to fIow when light
wavelength
| hits 0.5 um.

Ok.... 500 nanometers... reasonable.



| I want to know if light that is emitted at say 0.55 um but is
| doppler shifted up to 0.5 um will have the same effect.

Try the demo at
http://lectureonline.cl.msu.edu/~mmp/kap28/PhotoEffect/photo.htm

Caesium, 99% intensity, 1.70 V, 500 nm
Increase wavelength to 580 nm.

Or did I misunderstand the question?
Maybe I did... emitted at 500 nm, then doppler shifted.
Ok, 500 nm is kinda blue/cyan. 580 nm is green.
Does the colour stay blue when doppler shifted?
If it does, you'll have a blue emission line in the green band.
If it changes colour...




| Such an experiment should show if the energy needed to release the
electrons is
| carried intrinsically or kinetically by the photon. Do you get what I
mean?


Yes, of course. It's a sensible question.
The energy I use to throw the cricket ball (and win the Ashes) from the
bed of a 4x4 is added to the energy from the speed of the 4x4, which is
why the bowler takes a walk back and then runs forward. I can't run
because of my arthritic ankle, you can run because of your gout, so we
ride in the back of a 4x4 to bowl the other out and save them from
having to run.
Now the speed of the 4x4 is u, the speed of my bowling arm is v,
and the energy of the ball relative to your wicket is 1/2m (u+v)^2,
sufficient
to dislodged the bails.
For the PE, the intensity of the light is equivalent to the mass of the
cricket ball.
We could use a 10-pin bowling ball instead, but that only rolls along
the ground
slowly and flattens the wicket, it doesn't knock the bails flying.
The wicket is the nucleus of the atom, the bails are the electrons.


| The Mossbauer effect is about the only test I know of for this.

Mossbauer is recoil, Newton's "for every action there is a reaction".
The 4x4 is slowed by my tossing the cricket ball at you. If I hurled
a skyscraper at you the 4x4 would go backwards.

|
|
| >| Are you saying that v is the source speed wrt the atom centre or
the
| >observer?
| >
| >You know I'd say all velocities are relative, H.
| >The atom is coming at you at c.
| >The photon leaves the atom at c, relative to the atom, coming at you
at
| >2c.
| >What is the energy of the photon?
| >How would you measure it?
| >Light pressure on a sail, perhaps?
|
| If there were enough identical photons, maybe.

Yes, but how would you measure the energy of one oxygen molecule and
four nitrogen molecules from a yacht sailing by you at 10 knots?

Androcles

| >
| >Androcles
| >|
| >|
| >| >| >
| >| >| >In other words: Maxwell's equations may not apply.
| >| >| >
| >| >| >Why did you say that if it wasn't because you have realized
| >| >| >that Maxwell's equations are incompatible with the ballistic
| >theory?
| >| >|
| >| >| Maxwell's equations say the same as LET.
| >| >|
| >| >| They imply that in any frame, measured light speed will have the
| >value
| >| >'c'.
| >| >| Both theories rely on the fact that the measuring process is
| >affected
| >| >by
| >| >| 'absolute movement'.
| >| >
| >| >Err.. LET should require a different form of E = hc/lambda.
| >| > lambda = lamda * c/(c+v) with aether, the same form as Doppler
with
| >| >air.
| >| >Think of the wavelength of a sonic boom. With LET, a lumic boom
| >| >is possible, and as far as I know, there is no speed restriction
in
| >LET.
| >| >Thus jets from quasars should be infinitely bright.
| >|
| >
>http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/astronomy/chandra_pileup_001108.html
| >| >E = hf', where f' = fc/(c+v)
| >| >This corresponds with Einstein's "It follows from these results
that
| >to
| >| >an observer approaching a source of light with the velocity c,
this
| >| >source of light must appear of infinite intensity." but he seems
to
| >have
| >| >forgotten "The observable phenomenon here depends only on the
| >relative
| >| >motion of the conductor and the magnet", so it follows from these
| >| >results (observable phenomenon) that to a source of light
| >approaching
| >| >an observer with the velocity c, this source of light must appear
of
| >| >infinite intensity.
| >| >This observation (or lack of it) disproves Einstein's theory and
LET.
| >| >I would still like to see the bright green flying elephant perched
on
| >| >the accretion
| >| >ring near the black hole that Roberts saw, but I guess I'm stuck
with
| >| >boring old
| >| >quasars.
| >| >
| >| >
| >| >
| >| >| >> He did! many times.
| >| >| >> He was just as confused as the rest of you SRians.
| >| >| >>
| >| >| >> He didn't even realize that his clock synch definition
provided
| >a
| >| >way of
| >| >| >> established absolute simultaneity.
| >| >| >
| >| >| >Demonstrating your stupidity again, Henri? :-)
| >| >|
| >| >| and why is it stupid?
| >| >| I firmly believe that Einstein might have believed it
himself...but
| >| >didn't let
| >| >| on....
| >| >|
| >| >The grinning ape tusselad does like to divert attention away from
the
| >| >issue.
| >| >Androcles.
| >| >
| >| >
| >| >| >
| >| >| >>
| >| >| >>>And your point was to divert the attension from these
| >| >| >>>stupidities of yours, wasn't it? :-)
| >| >| >>
| >| >| >>
| >| >| >> keep trraving....
| >| >| >
| >| >| >Keep diverting the attention from your stupidities
| >| >| >by uttering new stupidities.
| >| >|
| >| >| According to the BaT, light speed is the same in both direction
| >| >between objects
| >| >| that are mutually at rest. E-Synching is therefore 'absolute
| >| >synching'.
| >| >|
| >| >| And as I have proved many times, either clock can be
subsequently
| >| >moved and
| >| >| will remain in absolute synch.
| >| >|
| >| >| >
| >| >| >
| >| >| >Paul
| >| >| >
| >| >|
| >| >|
| >| >| HW.
| >| >| www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm
| >| >|
| >| >| Sometimes I feel like a complete failure.
| >| >| The most useful thing I have ever done is prove Einstein wrong.
| >|
| >|
| >| HW.
| >| www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm
| >|
| >| Sometimes I feel like a complete failure.
| >| The most useful thing I have ever done is prove Einstein wrong.
|
|
| HW.
| www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm
|
| Sometimes I feel like a complete failure.
| The most useful thing I have ever done is prove Einstein wrong.

.

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