Re: Attraction VS geometry


<joe_avery_2005@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1131810476.748687.74320@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> Bilge wrote:
>> surrealistic-dream@xxxxxxxxxxx:
>>
>> >There doesn't *have* to be real warping of space! It's just that
>> >Einstein used the metaphor of "space warping" to make his GR theory
>
> This is a widely accepted view and probably the correct one to take.
>>
>>
>> Isn't it a little illogical to call curved spacetime a metaphor, as if
>> calling it anything else could possibly be any less of a metaphor?
>
> Is this an argument or a question?
>
>> Curved
>> spacetime is well defined and is even well defined in terms of the
>> measuring instruments used for centuries to measure distances, times,
>> etc.
>
> All human measurements refer to 3-D space and time only. Thus, nothing
> is "well defined" in terms of measuring curved 4-D spaetime. We can
> only measure the predicted effects of such curvature on 3-D space and
> time. Huge difference that is.
>
>> If anything is a metaphor for reality, it would be those descriptions
>> that
>> don't actually agree with real measurements.
>
> See above. You are in a fallacy mode now.
>
>> Why should space and time
>> suddenly become a metaphor just because science has managed to quantify
>> it
>> extremely well?
>
> It is very simple: spacetime is unobservable. Realists assume its
> existence but anti-realists completely discount its existence. Now,
> since QM prevailing interpretation is anti-realist, for GR to make
> sense it must conform to it and hence, spacetime is just a cincept to
> assist in modeling reality rather than a feature of it.
>
> Is there some reason that nature can't ``really'' be
>> weirder than it superficially appears to be? Why is flat any better than
>> not-flat? Even from a philosophical standpoint, the most believable
>> explanation of reality is the one that doesnt require nature to make
>> conscious decisions.
>
> I never heard of such explanation before. You are probably making it
> up. There is a clear lack of a proper definition of the term 'concious"
> in philosophy so try to avoid using it in any sensible arguments. It
> can only work against you, not for you.
>
>> Nature has to make a lot more decisions in creating
>> flat spaceime and then filling it with matter than in doing nothing and
>> letting the matter and spacetime be consequences of each other.
>
> Unfortunately, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Either
> spacetime is just a model or it is some kind of substance that is
> different than ordinary matter. The rest you claim are inconsistent
> positions that have been rejected long ago by both philosophy and
> science.
>
> Joe Avery

Bilge is a well-known child that thinks the set R and the operator
(v+w)/(1+vw/c^2) is a group.
Androcles.


.

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