Re: Hobba's misconceptions

Bill Hobba wrote:
> <surrealistic-dream@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:1134317574.120054.40230@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Mike wrote:
> >> Bill Hobba wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> [snip]
> >>
> >> > >
> >> > > In the mean time, let's try an example: Consider Einstein's claim
> >> > > that
> >> > > Newton viewed acceleration as with respect to absolute space (or
> >> > > inertial space).
> >> >
> >> > Inertial space????????? - there are inertial FOR's. Before proceeding
> >> > to
> >> > discuss physics learn enough of the language to discuss it
> >> > meaningfully.
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Now surealistic, I hope you get the idea of what kind of people you are
> >> dealing with. First, they come in these ng's and throw in their
> >> misconceptions, they pretend to be experts, but when they cornered and
> >> are proven to be idiots they will continue the conversation and try to
> >> grap and phrase they can in order to attack you and tell you that you
> >> have to learn the subject.
> >
> > I'm not happy that Hobba dissed me, but I also am not happy that
> > posters here call each other names, like you do to others. Is this NG a
> > return to high school immaturity and posturing?
> >
> >>
> >> Hobba, you are the one who needs to get formal education in physics and
> >> not surealistic. In this tread and other, it is evident surealistic has
> >> a deep understanding of the issues involved in mechanics but you have
> >> shown complete misunderstanding and confusion.
> >>
> >> Inertial space idiot? That is a term used in orbital mechanics all the
> >> time imbecile Hobba. Seefor yourself:
> >>
> >> http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/basics/bsf5-1.html
> >>
> >> I hope you can use Edit-Find-Inertial space.
> >>
> >> Definition: inertial space. A frame of reference defined w.r.t. the
> >> fixed stars.
> >
> > I may be using the term a little differently than JPL does, though
> > related, of course. A space is a union of things. Physical space is a
> > union of physical points; inertial space is the union of all inertial
> > FoR.
>
> Hold on here. What is a physical point? What makes it different from the
> usual concept of point as something that has position and no size? How do
> you know the position of a point without a coordinate system? The
> mathematical union of all inertial FOR's is not a FOR (it is a set of FOR's)
> so how can anything be stationary wrt to it?

Yes, these frames are coordinate systems. However, the context is
acceleration, not position or velocity. Give me a chance to read Landau
and I'll get back to you later. In any case, I have my doubts about
your claim on Landau's behalf that Newtonian mechanics can do without
absolute space. I reproduced for you a variation of Einstein's thought
experiment about the two fluid orbs in relative rotation to each other
(found in his 1916 GR paper, Dover, 112-113), in which he claimed that
Newtonian mechanics needs invisible absolute space (only alluded to
there, but he spoke often about this defect of Newton's theory in his
essays) to explain the empirical asymmetry. So, we'll see how it goes.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Is light a wave or a particle?
    ... Specify the positions of the individual ... And since this is exactly the same that is done in Newtonian mechanics, ... So, according to you, photons going in opposite directions have the _same_ ... physics. ...
    (sci.physics)
  • Re: Preferred Frame Theory indistinguishable from SR
    ... Axiomatic systems do not need to justify their axioms. ... 'taken for granted systems' do not need to justify their ... It is those differences that make SR a foundation of modern physics, and LR a historical anecdote unknown by most. ... For instance, Newtonian mechanics, Lagrangian mechanics, Hamiltonian mechanics, and Hamilton-Jacobi theory are all experimentally indistinguishable within the same domain, yet all are taught in good physics curricula. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: OT: Christopher Hitchens Has Passed Away
    ... classical problem in physics which any sophomore in college will know ... formulation of universal gravitation, which is essentially the ... over a believer to discover and accept a solution to a problem in ...
    (rec.music.classical.recordings)
  • Re: Hobbas misconceptions
    ... >> Bill Hobba wrote: ... >>> discuss physics learn enough of the language to discuss it ... >> Definition: inertial space. ... >> For all purposes, inertial space is an inertial frame of reference, ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: The horrible failure of science education
    ... > science education, his problem, by his own self admission, is he gets his ... > this guys problem, IMHO, is trying to understand physics via surrogate ie ... There is no physics prior to philosophy. ... Newtonian mechanics correctly. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)